Raptor vs Eagle

Well,

I don't see the problem. If this thing can take on 8 other aircraft, then
it means the US needs fewer of them.

What was the ratio for the F-16 and F-18s?

Figure out the difference, and thats how many F-22s we need. Even if they
do cost more.


"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
8 versus 1! And this against arguably the best fighter (and pilots) in
the world.

Looks like Lockheed's got another winner. (I just hope it isn't the last
manned fighter aircraft...)

Impressive, but...

One must remember that it is politically important for military brass to
ensure that their latest toys get good press. Not saying the dogfight was
faked, but I would not be surprised to learn that the exercise was
designed to show the F-22 to maximum advantage.

Congress has been upset about the astounding cost of the Raptor, which has
gone from around $90 million to nearly $200 million per plane. At one
point in 1999, conservative Republicans Jerry Lewis of California and Bill
Young of Florida, and conservative Democrat John Murtha of Pennsylvania,
all key figures on the House Appropriations Committee, attempted to zero
production funding because of skyrocketing costs and procurement
"irregularities." To keep that from happening again, the Air Force will
make every effort to make sure the F-22 is perceived as the uber-fighter
it was touted to be.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Dave wrote:

Well,

I don't see the problem. If this thing can take on 8 other aircraft, then
it means the US needs fewer of them.

What was the ratio for the F-16 and F-18s?

Figure out the difference, and thats how many F-22s we need. Even if they
do cost more.


That 8 to one ratio was not against planes of equal capability. You cannot
count on the bad guys having planes only as capable as the F-15/F-16.





--
Saville

Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html

Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm

Steambending FAQ with photos:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm

"gregg" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:

Well,

I don't see the problem. If this thing can take on 8 other aircraft,
then
it means the US needs fewer of them.

What was the ratio for the F-16 and F-18s?

Figure out the difference, and thats how many F-22s we need. Even if
they
do cost more.


That 8 to one ratio was not against planes of equal capability. You
cannot
count on the bad guys having planes only as capable as the F-15/F-16.


The 8-1 was against an F-15 that is at least as capable as anything anyone
else has and more capable than what we will probably up against.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
news:yHrOe.2879$Ix4.713@okepread03...

"gregg" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:

Well,

I don't see the problem. If this thing can take on 8 other aircraft,
then
it means the US needs fewer of them.

What was the ratio for the F-16 and F-18s?

Figure out the difference, and thats how many F-22s we need. Even if
they
do cost more.


That 8 to one ratio was not against planes of equal capability. You
cannot
count on the bad guys having planes only as capable as the F-15/F-16.


The 8-1 was against an F-15 that is at least as capable as anything anyone
else has and more capable than what we will probably up against.


Oh, and that IS a good thing.

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:


"gregg" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:

Well,

I don't see the problem. If this thing can take on 8 other aircraft,
then
it means the US needs fewer of them.

What was the ratio for the F-16 and F-18s?

Figure out the difference, and thats how many F-22s we need. Even if
they
do cost more.


That 8 to one ratio was not against planes of equal capability. You
cannot
count on the bad guys having planes only as capable as the F-15/F-16.


The 8-1 was against an F-15 that is at least as capable as anything anyone
else has and more capable than what we will probably up against.


Today, yes. But it won't always be so. I believe that in time there will be
other superpowers and they will be technologically equal - maybe even
superior.

Won't be right away. Which is exactly why I wonder if it's smart to buy
dozens of squadrons of F-22's. (I exxagerate the numbers but you get my
point I trust)


--
Saville

Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html

Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm

Steambending FAQ with photos:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm

gregg wrote:

That 8 to one ratio was not against planes of equal capability. You cannot
count on the bad guys having planes only as capable as the F-15/F-16.

Well, at the present time, you can count on them flying something inferior to
the F-15/F-16. Given the economic situation in Russia, it doesn't look like
Sukhoi or MiG is going to be changing that anytime soon.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

George Patterson wrote:
gregg wrote:


That 8 to one ratio was not against planes of equal capability. You
cannot count on the bad guys having planes only as capable as the
F-15/F-16.


Well, at the present time, you can count on them flying something
inferior to the F-15/F-16. Given the economic situation in Russia, it
doesn't look like Sukhoi or MiG is going to be changing that anytime soon.

So where can I find out how F-15/F-16/F-18 do against MiG-29, Su-31,
Mirage, Eurofighter, Griffon?

"john smith" wrote in message
...
George Patterson wrote:
gregg wrote:


That 8 to one ratio was not against planes of equal capability. You
cannot count on the bad guys having planes only as capable as the
F-15/F-16.


Well, at the present time, you can count on them flying something
inferior to the F-15/F-16. Given the economic situation in Russia, it
doesn't look like Sukhoi or MiG is going to be changing that anytime
soon.

So where can I find out how F-15/F-16/F-18 do against MiG-29, Su-31,
Mirage, Eurofighter, Griffon?


Well in the Desert Shield/Storm F-15s kicked the crap out of Iraqi Mig-29s.
Including one kill where a 15C literally maneuvered the -29 into the ground.

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
"john smith" wrote in message
...

George Patterson wrote:

gregg wrote:


That 8 to one ratio was not against planes of equal capability. You
cannot count on the bad guys having planes only as capable as the
F-15/F-16.


Well, at the present time, you can count on them flying something
inferior to the F-15/F-16. Given the economic situation in Russia, it
doesn't look like Sukhoi or MiG is going to be changing that anytime
soon.

So where can I find out how F-15/F-16/F-18 do against MiG-29, Su-31,
Mirage, Eurofighter, Griffon?



Well in the Desert Shield/Storm F-15s kicked the crap out of Iraqi Mig-29s.
Including one kill where a 15C literally maneuvered the -29 into the ground.

That doesn't count!!!
I mean against a pilot from a real country, one that has been trained to
think for themselves.

"john smith" wrote in message
. ..
Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

Well in the Desert Shield/Storm F-15s kicked the crap out of Iraqi
Mig-29s. Including one kill where a 15C literally maneuvered the -29 into
the ground.

That doesn't count!!!
I mean against a pilot from a real country, one that has been trained to
think for themselves.


Sure they do. Those pilots were trained by the USSR and at the time members
of the 4th Largest military in them world. If number ~3 against number 4
doesn't count what does.