Stop whining, America!

W P Dixon wrote:

Sitting on the bow of that carrier with your legs hanging off the
front of the ship, playing guitar under a beautiful clear sky full of
stars as far as you can see, the sounds of the waves on the hull as she
pushes her way onward to the next port. Sometimes when you are there it
is hard to believe the awesome force and violence that the same ocean
can give you on any other day at any other time.

You're making me miss it... Nothing quite like being on a flattop in
the middle of the Pacific as far away from land as possible without
leaving the planet... It was the same feeling I get now on a long
cross-country flight on a calm moon-lit night.


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame
## VP, Product Development
## MFM Software, Inc. (http://www.mfm.com/)
"SCSI is *not* magic. There are *fundamental* *technical* *reasons*
why you have to sacrifice a young goat to your SCSI chain every now
and then."
-- John F. Woods )

I only did the one cruise, which was plenty because of where we ended up.
But being at sea was really beautiful. Whenever I get down and out about
things I think of all I have done and accomplished , and thinking of the
times just looking out at the ocean and seeing nothing but ocean always
makes me smile. My favorite was the waterspouts ! That was just so cool!
Heck at times you could see 6 or 7 at a time. And my 21st birthday bash in
Cadiz, Spain was pretty good. Took the 10 days to cross the Atlantic to
recoup! HAHAHA
Heck my Dad is getting close to 70 and everytime I have ever been around
a beach with the old Navy vet he takes a deep breath and says "Home Again".

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Mark T. Dame" wrote in message
...
W P Dixon wrote:

Sitting on the bow of that carrier with your legs hanging off the
front of the ship, playing guitar under a beautiful clear sky full of
stars as far as you can see, the sounds of the waves on the hull as she
pushes her way onward to the next port. Sometimes when you are there it
is hard to believe the awesome force and violence that the same ocean can
give you on any other day at any other time.

You're making me miss it... Nothing quite like being on a flattop in the
middle of the Pacific as far away from land as possible without leaving
the planet... It was the same feeling I get now on a long cross-country
flight on a calm moon-lit night.


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame
## VP, Product Development
## MFM Software, Inc. (http://www.mfm.com/)
"SCSI is *not* magic. There are *fundamental* *technical* *reasons*
why you have to sacrifice a young goat to your SCSI chain every now
and then."
-- John F. Woods )

W P Dixon wrote:
Yep that one was silly I've never been in the Great Lakes but I sure have
been across the ocean. I have seen waves coming over the flight deck of a
carrier and destroyers spending more time under the water than on the
surface. The outside of a hurricane is a very interesting experience at sea.
I think you under estimate the power of the open sea and definitely under
estimate the ability of a professional sailor.

There is a great book out there called "Fatal Storm" about the 1998
Sydney-Hobart yacht race, which was hit by a massive storm in a similar
fashion to the 1979 Fastnet race. There are a few great stories in it
of rescues made by other sailboats and one account of an oceangoing
tramp steamer pulling alongside a stricken 40' sailboat and winching
the crew right off the deck--in Beaufort 11 conditions. Puts the
Perfect Storm to shame, largely because there were survivors to tell
what really happened. Definitely not a book to take on your next
cruise.

-cwk.

"W P Dixon" wrote

Sailor green on
the Great Lakes? I don't think so. A newbie, sure ..but not a stout old
salt.

Don't be so sure. I would not take anything away from your tales of the
ocean's violence, but the Great Lakes are rough in a totally different way.
They will get your attention.

I'm sure there are some out there that have seen the worst of both. Some
have died, not believing the Great Lakes could be more than they could
handle, even though they were experienced open ocean sailors.
--
Jim in NC

Dying isn't what the man said, he said get green. Big difference. An
experienced sailor can die in Cherokee Lake making a mistake. But he will be
a hell of alot less likely to make that mistake than your normal run of the
mill, put the bass boat in the water type. I am not disputing storms in the
Great Lakes at all, just disputing the strenght as compared to the sea's
fury.
Just some wave info on the Great Lakes,

Rogue waves are not exclusively an ocean phenomena. The National Oceanic and
Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has recorded rogue wave patterns occurring
frequently on the Great Lakes. Storm wave patterns on Lake Superior in the
winter occasionally reach 26 feet and could create a rogue wave over 57 feet
based on NOAA's observations. One of the theories behind the tragic sinking
of the famous freighter Edmund Fitzgerald is that she was downed by a rogue
wave during a major storm on Lake Superior back in November 1975. No one
will know for sure as everyone perished. from an article in Boat/US
Magazine

From the same article about waves in the ocean that just poof there it is ,
not even a storm....

Imagine cruising on a perfect sailing day and suddenly staring at a 35- to
40-foot wave that comes out of nowhere. "I remember as a boy cruising off of
Cape Hatteras in a calm sea, seeing a rogue wave come out of nowhere,"
remembers Bob Adriance--editor of Seaworthy, the BoatU.S. Marine Insurance
news-journal. "Fortunately we were able to turn and negotiate a wave that
was higher than my dad's 34-foot cruiser."

That's just a normal happening, that isn't even saying the heights of
storm waves, though the article does go on to mention some very impressive
numbers. And mostly admits the ocean is so vast it may be possible that the
bigget waves have never been recorded. 80 foot is not uncommon.

Not doubting storms can be bad in the Great Lakes but a well seasoned
sailor is not going to get green. He is used to running around a ship making
sure aircraft are chained to the deck in these storms at sea. He is a
professional, doesn't mean for an instant he can't die..things happen. But
let's be realistic about a green sailor. There is a big difference in the
wording.



Patrick

student SPL

aircraft structural mech



"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"W P Dixon" wrote

Sailor green on
the Great Lakes? I don't think so. A newbie, sure ..but not a stout old
salt.

Don't be so sure. I would not take anything away from your tales of the
ocean's violence, but the Great Lakes are rough in a totally different
way.
They will get your attention.

I'm sure there are some out there that have seen the worst of both. Some
have died, not believing the Great Lakes could be more than they could
handle, even though they were experienced open ocean sailors.
--
Jim in NC

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...

One of the theories behind the tragic sinking
of the famous freighter Edmund Fitzgerald is that she was downed by a
rogue
wave during a major storm on Lake Superior back in November 1975. No one
will know for sure as everyone perished. from an article in Boat/US
Magazine

From the same article about waves in the ocean that just poof there it is
,
not even a storm....

Imagine cruising on a perfect sailing day and suddenly staring at a 35- to
40-foot wave that comes out of nowhere. "I remember as a boy cruising off
of
Cape Hatteras in a calm sea, seeing a rogue wave come out of nowhere,"

This hardly describes the wave(s) that destroyed the Fitzgerald.

IIRC, it was 100 knot winds over shallow water. Imagine a nosedive into the
lakebed 200 feet below (for a 700 foot ship).

Wave height is only one factor. Distance between waves is even more
important. I'll take a 50 foot ocean wave over a 25 foot Great Lakes wave
any day.

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
Dying isn't what the man said, he said get green. Big difference. An
experienced sailor can die in Cherokee Lake making a mistake. But he will
be
a hell of alot less likely to make that mistake than your normal run of
the
mill, put the bass boat in the water type. I am not disputing storms in
the
Great Lakes at all, just disputing the strenght as compared to the sea's
fury.
Just some wave info on the Great Lakes,

Rogue waves are not exclusively an ocean phenomena. The National Oceanic
and
Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has recorded rogue wave patterns
occurring
frequently on the Great Lakes. Storm wave patterns on Lake Superior in the
winter occasionally reach 26 feet and could create a rogue wave over 57
feet
based on NOAA's observations. One of the theories behind the tragic
sinking
of the famous freighter Edmund Fitzgerald is that she was downed by a
rogue
wave during a major storm on Lake Superior back in November 1975. No one
will know for sure as everyone perished. from an article in Boat/US
Magazine

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
A great experience that I wish more people could share. Sailor green
on
the Great Lakes? I don't think so. A newbie, sure ..but not a stout old
salt.

Edmund Fitzgerald (certainly not an isolated case).

wrote:

coastal stinkpotter

Blowboater...

Aquanauts, just like aviates just want to be doing it, doesn't much care
what its in... Sometimes...