ELT Required for all SSA sanctioned contests starting 2006

BB wrote:
It explains the rationale for the rule quite clearly. Briefly, the
requirement is there to protect contest organizers, and at their
request, rather than to force unwanted protection on pilots. Imagine
running a contest, someone goes missing, and day after day passes.
That's also why the rules require a mounted, impact-activated device.

The rationale consists of one recent tragic fatal accident at contest,
and another accident at a contest 14 years ago, where the pilot managed
to walk out. The non-ELT equipped US contest pilots (which are likely
still the majority) are either going to be spending an average $400 to
$500 (most of us will have to pay a repair shop for installation) each
this winter, or will simply choose to not to fly in any more sanctioned
contests. Those who do buy ELTs will mostly be buying units that will
be essentially obsolete in 3 or 4 years, as the 406 MHz units are still
too expensive for a lot of us.

It will be interesting to see how many people show up for regional
contests next year. I sympathize with the rationale, but an ELT ends up
being just being another in a set of barriers to participation. In my
own case, there's a chance I'll never get around to doing anything about
it this winter, which will tilt the balance towards not bothering to go
to any contests (and I've flown in 7 regionals in the past 5 years, IIRC).

Since the vast majority of accidents are in the landing phase,
it can be reasonably expected that glider and pilot will be in very
close proximity- usually intertwined.
UH

And when they smooch the pooch right near the airport, the contest
organizers need an ELT to find 'em??

Strikes me as being another inane rule. If they were trying to improve pilot
safety, which would make more sense, then they'd at least allow PLB's to be
used as an alternative.

Fortunately, I don't fly contests so don't have to be too concerned. But I
will be voluntarily buying a PLB anyway, because I am concerned.

bumper
wrote in message
oups.com...
Since the vast majority of accidents are in the landing phase,
it can be reasonably expected that glider and pilot will be in very
close proximity- usually intertwined.
UH

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 15:08:08 +0000, Don Johnstone wrote:

If I were to be persuaded that an ELT was a necessary peice of
equipment, and in the UK at least I see no urgent need...

I beg to disagree: there are quite enough corners of the UK where you can
crash unobserved and are unlikely to be found until a farm hand comes by
on a tractor next day or next week.

One thing bothers me about the UK scene: although the dropping of 121.5
MHz by CORPAS-SARSAT is an international decision and will affect UK
users, there seems to be no publicity for it here and no 406 MHz ELT
equipment available or promised by the likes of RD Aviation.

I notice that all ELT units are very low power on 121.5. They are either
100 mW or don't bother to quote power, so I assume they are 100 mW by
default. I would not want to rely on such a low power transmitter for
non-satellite crashed detection.

Can any of our American friends say what the typical detection range is
for either 90C or 406 ELTs on 121.5?

--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

So the requirement has nothing at all to do with the
safety of pilots, just for the peace of mind of contest
organisers. Thank you for explaining it so clearly.



At 18:24 06 September 2005, Bb wrote:
People in this discussion should stop to read the excellent
FAQs about
the ELT requirement on the SRA website:

http://sailplane-racing.org/Rules/CR...T%20FAQ%20.htm

It explains the rationale for the rule quite clearly.
Briefly, the
requirement is there to protect contest organizers,
and at their
request, rather than to force unwanted protection on
pilots. Imagine
running a contest, someone goes missing, and day after
day passes.
That's also why the rules require a mounted, impact-activated
device.

John Cochrane
BB

Just wait until the civil aviation authority reuqires you to trade your
VolksLogger for an 88 parameter Digital Flight Data Recorder (a.k.a.
"black box," in airline parlance), which will require everything short
of a rectal probe. They HAVE contributed to aircraft safety, albeit
for the NEXT generation of pilots and aircraft. Understanding what
happened (and studying how to prevent it) is important to helping our
sports survive. A shame our data loggers aren't being force fed to the
power aviation fleet.

FWIW, I have an ELT in my humble glider: I want to be found. I treat
it like the spare tire for my crew vehicle (and my trailer), I think of
them as talismans (or as part of homemage to Murphy): I'd rather have
it and not need it than need it and not have it. Being raised to be an
Eagle Scout ("Be Prepared") might have something to do with it too. I
did get the economy Ameri-King ELT, that works with Duracell "D" cells.

I would love for EPIRB's to come down in price, so that I'll have a
belt AND suspenders!

Yes, I have analogies that are more crude, but I shall refrain.

-Pete

309 wrote:
Just wait until the civil aviation authority reuqires you to trade your
VolksLogger for an 88 parameter Digital Flight Data Recorder (a.k.a.
"black box," in airline parlance), which will require everything short
of a rectal probe. They HAVE contributed to aircraft safety, albeit
for the NEXT generation of pilots and aircraft. Understanding what
happened (and studying how to prevent it) is important to helping our
sports survive. A shame our data loggers aren't being force fed to the
power aviation fleet.

You're making a little joke? At best, the information to be extracted
is rather minimal. Usually, there's nothing there at all, as the little
backup battery held in place by a simple spring clip is jarred out of
place and the data in RAM goes away in seconds. Hardly a substitute for
a black box.

-Dave



FWIW, I have an ELT in my humble glider: I want to be found. I treat
it like the spare tire for my crew vehicle (and my trailer), I think of
them as talismans (or as part of homemage to Murphy): I'd rather have
it and not need it than need it and not have it. Being raised to be an
Eagle Scout ("Be Prepared") might have something to do with it too. I
did get the economy Ameri-King ELT, that works with Duracell "D" cells.

I would love for EPIRB's to come down in price, so that I'll have a
belt AND suspenders!

Yes, I have analogies that are more crude, but I shall refrain.

-Pete

Just wait until you have to make the phone call to a wife/spouse that
their pilot hasn't come back to the field.....and you don't know where
that pilot is. Just wait until you have to launch rescue search
parties and hoping against all hope that you can get to the pilot
before they die. Personally, I would rather spend the $400 or $500
bucks to get an ELT rather than sitting somewhere in the mountains
waiting to see if anybody "noticed" where I had gone down. just my
thoughts. I have been there and hope to never be there again. I love
the sport, and don't want to see good pilots lost because they wanted
to push that little bit extra and didn't make it.

X-no-archive: yes
In article , David Kinsell
writes
309 wrote:
Just wait until the civil aviation authority reuqires you to trade your
VolksLogger for an 88 parameter Digital Flight Data Recorder (a.k.a.
"black box," in airline parlance), which will require everything short
of a rectal probe. They HAVE contributed to aircraft safety, albeit
for the NEXT generation of pilots and aircraft. Understanding what
happened (and studying how to prevent it) is important to helping our
sports survive. A shame our data loggers aren't being force fed to the
power aviation fleet.

You're making a little joke? At best, the information to be extracted
is rather minimal. Usually, there's nothing there at all, as the little
backup battery held in place by a simple spring clip is jarred out of
place and the data in RAM goes away in seconds. Hardly a substitute for
a black box.

-Dave

That might be true of some older recorders, but later recorders are
better in their construction and the use of Non-volatile memory.

The analysis of IGC traces post accident can be informative, of
sometimes show that the accident became inevitable some time before the
actual event. Plan Ahead!

It has been written into the specification for IGC Flight Recorders for
some time that they should be "Crashworthy".

Tim Newport-Peace

"Indecision is the Key to Flexibility."

Tim Newport-Peace wrote:
X-no-archive: yes
In article , David Kinsell
writes

309 wrote:

Just wait until the civil aviation authority reuqires you to trade your
VolksLogger for an 88 parameter Digital Flight Data Recorder (a.k.a.
"black box," in airline parlance), which will require everything short
of a rectal probe. They HAVE contributed to aircraft safety, albeit
for the NEXT generation of pilots and aircraft. Understanding what
happened (and studying how to prevent it) is important to helping our
sports survive. A shame our data loggers aren't being force fed to the
power aviation fleet.

You're making a little joke? At best, the information to be extracted
is rather minimal. Usually, there's nothing there at all, as the little
backup battery held in place by a simple spring clip is jarred out of
place and the data in RAM goes away in seconds. Hardly a substitute for
a black box.

-Dave


That might be true of some older recorders, but later recorders are
better in their construction and the use of Non-volatile memory.

The analysis of IGC traces post accident can be informative, of
sometimes show that the accident became inevitable some time before the
actual event. Plan Ahead!

Let's see, vertical descent became extreme. Was that because the
wings fell off, or did the wings fall off after exceeding redline?
Without attitude indication, cockpit recordings, and a host of other
parameters recorded in real black boxes, there's little to go on. The
data may be interesting, but hardly the stuff that prevents future
accidents.


It has been written into the specification for IGC Flight Recorders for
some time that they should be "Crashworthy".

Heck, if it's that easy, why not require that gliders be "Crashworthy"??
That would solve the whole problem. Just build them out of the same stuff
they use for IGC Flight Recorders.

-Dave




Tim Newport-Peace

"Indecision is the Key to Flexibility."