Sim time loggable?

"Robert Moore" wrote in message
...
wrote

Fair enough, but it's still loggable as PIC time, no?
Just can't count towards the recency or currency.

No simulator time counts as PIC. Doesn't matter if is a real
"airplane simulator", an "airplane flight training device", or
a "personal computer aviation training device", it's still not
"pilot experience", just "training time".

The FAA doesn't define "pilot experience", but it does define "pilot time",
"flight time", and "PIC time". Pilot time does include dual sim time
(though flight time and PIC time do not):

61.1b12: Pilot time means that time in which a person -- (i) Serves as a
required pilot flight crewmember; (ii) Receives training from an authorized
instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device; or
(iii) Gives training as an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight
simulator, or flight training device.

So whether you log dual sim time as part of total time depends on whether
it's total pilot time (included) or total flight time (not included). For
example, form 8710 (application for certificate or rating) asks for pilot
time.

--Gary

"Gary L. Drescher" wrote

The FAA doesn't define "pilot experience",

But does use "pilot experience" in Part 61.51

Section 61.51: Pilot logbooks.
(2) Type of pilot experience or training --

(i) Solo.

(ii) Pilot in command.

(iii) Second in command.

(iv) Flight and ground training received from an authorized
instructor.

(v) Training received in a flight simulator or flight training device
from an authorized instructor.

"Gary L. Drescher" wrote in message
news:ve3Ab.437503$Fm2.435988@attbi_s04...
"Robert Moore" wrote in message
...
wrote


61.1b12: Pilot time means that time in which a person -- (i) Serves as a
required pilot flight crewmember; (ii) Receives training from an
authorized
instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device; or
(iii) Gives training as an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight
simulator, or flight training device.

Uh-oh. Back to the scenario we were recently discussing: non-IR pilot flying
in IMC with an actual non-instructor PIC by his side. The PF can log PIC
time but it's not Pilot time. That would conform with the common argument
(not mine) that the PNF isn't logging PIC because the PF isn't required
under the regs.

Even weirder question: if two non-instructors are flying VMC VFR, with the
PF under the hood, which is required? Both? Neither? Only the safety pilot?
I don't know how to answer that from the regs.

My own logbook may need erasures in the second case.

So whether you log dual sim time as part of total time depends on whether
it's total pilot time (included) or total flight time (not included). For
example, form 8710 (application for certificate or rating) asks for pilot
time.

I think many of us log total Hobbs time (I know there are arguments against
it), which pretty much maps to the definition of pilot time.

-- David Brooks