fun with controllers at OSU

OK, I'll bite. Why is this a probem?

"Newps" wrote in message
...
We have an instructor here that will ask for options
and then have his student fly the length of our 2 mile runway at about 3
agl. In that 2 miles the student may touch the runway 5 or 6 times.
The instructor just can't understand why this is a problem.

Steve Foley wrote:

OK, I'll bite. Why is this a probem?

"Newps" wrote in message
...

We have an instructor here that will ask for options
and then have his student fly the length of our 2 mile runway at about 3
agl. In that 2 miles the student may touch the runway 5 or 6 times.
The instructor just can't understand why this is a problem.

A touch and go, an option or a stop and go allows you one operation. As
soon as you takeoff again you cannot then land without another
clearance. As soon as you takeoff I can launch the next departure. Now
if you land again that is certain to be a pilot deviation as you have
caused a loss of seperation.

In a previous article, Newps said:
We have an instructor here that will ask for options
and then have his student fly the length of our 2 mile runway at about 3
agl. In that 2 miles the student may touch the runway 5 or 6 times.
The instructor just can't understand why this is a problem.

A touch and go, an option or a stop and go allows you one operation. As
soon as you takeoff again you cannot then land without another
clearance. As soon as you takeoff I can launch the next departure. Now
if you land again that is certain to be a pilot deviation as you have
caused a loss of seperation.

That wasn't multiple operations, just one t&g with a lot of bounces. I'd
hate to think how many pilot deviations I've done with some of my
landings. :-)


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
please excuse my typing, but my whole left arm is in a cast. and i don't
mean _the king and i_.

Newps wrote in
:



A stop and go is one of your options is he doesn't specifically tell
you no stop and go's. We have an instructor here that will ask for
options and then have his student fly the length of our 2 mile runway
at about 3 agl. In that 2 miles the student may touch the runway 5 or
6 times. The instructor just can't understand why this is a problem.

Cleared for the option means you can do a "touch-and-go, low approach,
missed approach, stop-and-go, or full stop landing" (from the AIM).

Flying at 3agl is an excellent training exercise. I see nothing wrong
with doing it when you are cleared for the option.

If ATC expects a normal landing, then they should not clear you for the
option.





--
Andrew Sarangan
CFII
http://www.sarangan.org/aviation/

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

Newps wrote in
:



A stop and go is one of your options is he doesn't specifically tell
you no stop and go's. We have an instructor here that will ask for
options and then have his student fly the length of our 2 mile runway
at about 3 agl. In that 2 miles the student may touch the runway 5 or
6 times. The instructor just can't understand why this is a problem.


Cleared for the option means you can do a "touch-and-go, low approach,
missed approach, stop-and-go, or full stop landing" (from the AIM).

Flying at 3agl is an excellent training exercise. I see nothing wrong
with doing it when you are cleared for the option.

If ATC expects a normal landing, then they should not clear you for the
option.

My point was as a controller I have given a lot of option clearances and
then also stated that you could do anything except a stop and go.

In article , Mike W.
wrote:

This afternoon I went out for a few laps at Ohio State. ...[Tower] said 'clear for
the option'. So on one lap, I decided I wanted to practice a short field
landing. Stuck it, stopped and requested a back taxi. Nope, roll down to end
and taxi back on taxiway, then reprimanded me for stopping on the runway...
The airport was not at all busy. I am not arguing this guys authority... I was
this close to asking the guy for the number up in the cab....

I'm sure he'd have been happy to give it to you. Sometimes what you're
expecting and what ATC is expecting can be quite different, and I'm
sure he'd have been happy to rationally explain it.

So, you controllers out there, what exactly am I cleared to do with 'cleared
for the option' that differs from 'clear for touch and go' or 'clear to
land'? Do I need to request, specifically, that I am wanting to practice a
short field, with full braking and a complete stop on the runway?

That isn't what you asked for. You asked for a back-taxi on the active
runway, and that's something completely different. A stop-and-go means
you stop, and then GO. Not turn around, saunter back, line back up,
etc...

The AIM lists what you're specifically allowed to do on a

http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIM/Chap4/aim0403.html#4-3-22

4-3-22. Option Approach

The "Cleared for the Option" procedure will permit an instructor,
flight examiner or pilot the option to make a touch-and-go, low
approach, missed approach, stop-and-go, or full stop landing.



Also, relating to the full-stop landing above:

4-3-20. Exiting the Runway After Landing
The following procedures should be followed after landing and reaching
taxi speed.
a. Exit the runway without delay at the first available taxiway or on a
taxiway as instructed by ATC. Pilots shall not exit the landing runway
onto another runway unless authorized by ATC. At airports with an
operating control tower, pilots should not stop OR REVERSE COURSE on
the runway without first obtaining ATC approval.


So there you go. :-)

Hope that helps.

--
Garner R. Miller
ATP/CFII/MEI
Clifton Park, NY =USA=

("Garner Miller" wrote)
[snip]
The AIM lists what you're specifically allowed to do on a

http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIM/Chap4/aim0403.html#4-3-22

4-3-22. Option Approach

The "Cleared for the Option" procedure will permit an instructor,
flight examiner or pilot the option to make a touch-and-go, low
approach, missed approach, stop-and-go, or full stop landing.


....low approach.

How low? Curious.

At OSH I saw a low 'departure' on 27 the final Saturday evening. It was low
enough to wonder if the prop(s) would hit. Don't recall the make/model. IIRC
they retracted the wheels then stayed low for (what looked like) some hot
doggin' - scary. And I'm all for a little fun.


Montblack

"Montblack" wrote

At OSH I saw a low 'departure' on 27 the final Saturday evening. It was
low
enough to wonder if the prop(s) would hit. Don't recall the make/model.
IIRC
they retracted the wheels then stayed low for (what looked like) some hot
doggin' - scary. And I'm all for a little fun.

While it is certainly possible that hot doggin' was going on, it also could
be that someone took off with more fuel and cargo than they should have, and
therefore had a high seat suckin' - pucker factor goin' on. g
--
Jim in NC

("Morgans" wrote)
While it is certainly possible that hot doggin' was going on, it also
could
be that someone took off with more fuel and cargo than they should have,
and
therefore had a high seat suckin' - pucker factor goin' on. g


Gear up ...then used up the rest of the runway at (maybe) 7 feet AGL. Yeah,
probably a weight and balance issue :-)

(I don't think the bottom of the fuselage was more 10 feet off the deck, I'm
sticking with 7 feet - though I can't recall the type of plane it was. I
think it was white.)


Montblack

"Montblack" wrote in message
...

(I don't think the bottom of the fuselage was more 10 feet off the deck,
I'm sticking with 7 feet - though I can't recall the type of plane it was.
I think it was white.)


Gee, that'll narrow it down quite a bit.