Should you tell Tower you're departing IFR

"Scott Draper" wrote in message
...
or should they just know it already?

They should know it already.

I don't believe in volunteering a lot of unneeded information, because
that just craps up the airwaves.

I don't see a big difference in the time taken from saying "Ready for
takeoff" to saying "Holding for IFR release".

S Narayan wrote:

I don't see a big difference in the time taken from saying "Ready for
takeoff" to saying "Holding for IFR release".

I usually say "ready to go, IFR". I also mention that I'm IFR when I
request my taxi instructions. I'd prefer an extra half-second of radio
time to the possibility of confusion.

KCDW modified their procedures a while back in a similar way. They no
longer provide the squawk code with the clearance information; it's
[almost] always "clearance on release". I asked once, and was told that
there was a problem with people taking off IFR and the tower not realizing
they were IFR. Holding back the squawk apparently blocks that.

*Why* (or "how") this occurred is a part of the back story that -
unfortunately - I was not told. I'm still curious, should anyone here
know.

- Andrew

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...

KCDW modified their procedures a while back in a similar way. They no
longer provide the squawk code with the clearance information; it's
[almost] always "clearance on release". I asked once, and was told that
there was a problem with people taking off IFR and the tower not realizing
they were IFR. Holding back the squawk apparently blocks that.


I fail to see how not issuing a beacon code blocks someone from taking off
or helps the tower remember they're departing IFR.

Andrew Gideon wrote:



I usually say "ready to go, IFR". I also mention that I'm IFR when I
request my taxi instructions. I'd prefer an extra half-second of radio
time to the possibility of confusion.

KCDW modified their procedures a while back in a similar way. They no
longer provide the squawk code with the clearance information; it's
[almost] always "clearance on release". I asked once, and was told that
there was a problem with people taking off IFR and the tower not realizing
they were IFR. Holding back the squawk apparently blocks that.

It doesn't, it helps the tower hide the fact they released an IFR
without a release, which is an operational error. When I worked at GFK
the vast majority of our IFR traffic was from UND and they almost always
used the small parallel runway, mixed in with all the VFR's. To prevent
an inadvertant release of an UND IFR aircraft we would not issue your
clearance until you were done with your runup. It worked for us because
every clearance was as filed.



*Why* (or "how") this occurred is a part of the back story that -
unfortunately - I was not told. I'm still curious, should anyone here
know.

They had a deal, simple as that, just like one of our guys.

Newps wrote:


It doesn't, it helps the tower hide the fact they released an IFR
without a release, which is an operational error.

Laugh Okay. Considering who developed this procedure, what you're writing
doesn't surprise me.

But I suspect that it does help, in that it would be the odd IFR pilot who
could depart w/o a squawk. If the tower cleared me for t/o w/o giving me a
squawk, I'd ask. This forces the particular operator to know that it's an
IFR departure.

No?

- Andrew

I don't see a big difference in the time taken from saying "Ready
for takeoff" to saying "Holding for IFR release".

Making something simple seem obscure. Clearance Delivery gave me my
clearance; all I need from tower is a clearance to takeoff. Tower
needs an "IFR Release" for me, but that's their problem, i.e.,
"Controller Stuff".

If saying that I was holding for an IFR Release had some value, seems
that the AIM would suggest the phraseology.

"John Clonts" wrote in message
ups.com...

or should they just know it already?

I was departing Sugarland (KSGR) yesterday, after having gotten my
clearance from ground control.


How much time elapsed between getting your clearance and taxiing for
departure?



Tower assigned me runway heading (this
was about 45 minutes later as there was MUCH traffic waiting in line
for takeoffs) and handed me off to departure.


Do they normally send VFR aircraft to departure?



I had trouble getting a
word in edgewise, but when I eventually did, departure said "change
squawk to 0044". Later a different controller (but same freq I
believe) asked my if I was VFR???? I told him "Negative, N7NZ is
cleared Industry departure then as filed, currently on 270 vector". He
said, "roger, cleared direct IDU", and the rest of the flight was
uneventful (and unambiguously IFR). This was all in VMC.


How did you come to be on a 270 vector? Sugarland has only a north-south
runway and the tower assigned runway heading. Who then assigned a west
heading and for what purpose?



Later I thought that maybe the tower didn't realize I was IFR when he
cleared me for takeoff, and that fouled something up with departure.


If some time elapsed between issuance of IFR clearance and taxiing for
departure ground control may have forgotten that you were an IFR departure
and prepared a new VFR strip for local control. Did you request taxi right
after getting your clearance? If not, did you tell ground you were IFR when
you called for taxi?



Or, is there another reason I would have immediately been given a new
squawk code like that? I seem to remember that 0xxx squawks are
"local" or something like that. Yet I believe I then kept that same
0044 the entire remaining duration of the flight (through Houston
Center and then Austin Approach to my destination 44TE).


Are you sure the code was 0044? The National Beacon Code Allocation Plan
assigns codes 0100-0477 to terminal operations, it doesn't assign the block
0000-0077 to any purpose (which I find rather odd). Since your flight was
entirely within Houston Center you should have been assigned a code from one
of ZHU's internal departure blocks; 45xx, 46xx, or 47xx.

On 9/23/2005 11:34, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"John Clonts" wrote in message
ups.com...

or should they just know it already?

I was departing Sugarland (KSGR) yesterday, after having gotten my
clearance from ground control.


How much time elapsed between getting your clearance and taxiing for
departure?



Tower assigned me runway heading (this
was about 45 minutes later as there was MUCH traffic waiting in line
for takeoffs) and handed me off to departure.


Do they normally send VFR aircraft to departure?

They do when you've requested flight following.



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

Do they normally send VFR aircraft to departure?


They do when you've requested flight following.


Do IFR departures normally request flight following?

On 9/23/2005 11:51, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

Do they normally send VFR aircraft to departure?


They do when you've requested flight following.


Do IFR departures normally request flight following?



Either you're not following along, or you just want to argue.

Have a nice day.

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA