Light weight Euro-diesels

wrote:

The upthread-post was
regarding running water lines to the tanks. So my post was based on the
assumption that the safety of running lines had already been resolved.

The fuel/water heat exchanger is standard on diesel cars. For an hombuilt,
juste take one and bolt in somewhere bear the engine.
The return fuel is able to do the job and the whole tank will be warmer
enought for safe operation.

For biodiesel cars, some people juste run a copper tube near exhaut and the
same job is done. These cars still need a pure diesel start and stop.


By
--
Pub: http://www.slowfood.fr/france
Philippe Vessaire Ò¿Ó¬

"Philippe Vessaire" wrote

The fuel/water heat exchanger is standard on diesel cars. For an hombuilt,
juste take one and bolt in somewhere bear the engine.
The return fuel is able to do the job and the whole tank will be warmer
enought for safe operation.

For biodiesel cars, some people juste run a copper tube near exhaut and
the
same job is done. These cars still need a pure diesel start and stop.

Right. It is a good idea to warm the fuel, but you can not use the fuel to
get rid of all of the engine's waste heat.
--
Jim in NC

Philippe Vessaire wrote:

For biodiesel cars, some people juste run a copper tube near exhaut and the
same job is done. These cars still need a pure diesel start and stop.

Biodiesel does _not_ require a petrodiesel start/stop fuel. You're
thinking of straight vegetable oil systems.

The only thing you need to do to convert a diesel vehicle to biodiesel
is pour it into the tank.


AP

wrote

The other possibility would be to stick a radiator in each wing root
and funnel ram air through the radiator into the wing cavity. The
warmed air would then be the heating element. I wonder if that would be
sufficient to prevent gelling and also provide some minor wing heat
without all the complexity.

You really need to take some physics and thermodynamics. Right now, you
need to buy a vowel.

I'm only kinda kidding. What you are proposing isn't being done, because it
won't work. Sorry.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
wrote

The other possibility would be to stick a radiator in each wing root
and funnel ram air through the radiator into the wing cavity. The
warmed air would then be the heating element. I wonder if that would be
sufficient to prevent gelling and also provide some minor wing heat
without all the complexity.

You really need to take some physics and thermodynamics. Right now, you
need to buy a vowel.

I'm only kinda kidding. What you are proposing isn't being done, because it
won't work. Sorry.
--
Jim in NC

No need to apologise. I would first have to take you seriously in order
to be disappointed. This is usenet afterall, and a forum about
_experimental_ aircraft. I would think enthusiasm towards innovation
would be met with a slightly more positive attitude.

Can I buy an "A"?

-Matt

wrote


No need to apologise. I would first have to take you seriously in order
to be disappointed. This is usenet afterall, and a forum about
_experimental_ aircraft. I would think enthusiasm towards innovation
would be met with a slightly more positive attitude.

Right but experiments are take on,, when models and calculations show that
the proposed idea might work. It has been shown via well respected
concepts, that the numbers will not let it work. Sure, try it if you want,
but I would not want to waste my time and mones=y on something that falls
way short by the numbers.

Can I buy an "A"?

Sure! ;-)
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:

wrote


The other possibility would be to stick a radiator in each wing root
and funnel ram air through the radiator into the wing cavity. The
warmed air would then be the heating element. I wonder if that would be
sufficient to prevent gelling and also provide some minor wing heat
without all the complexity.


You really need to take some physics and thermodynamics. Right now, you
need to buy a vowel.

I'm only kinda kidding. What you are proposing isn't being done, because it
won't work. Sorry.

Well, again, has anyone done the engineering on this?

As I understand it, what he's talking about is simply using underwing
radiators and ducting the exhaust air from the radiators through the
interior of the wings before allowing it to flow out of exhaust ports.
I can see how it might work, the question is how well it would work.
Would it provide enough heat to the wing skin to keep ice from adhering
to it?


AP

Alan Petrillo wrote:
Morgans wrote:

wrote


The other possibility would be to stick a radiator in each wing root
and funnel ram air through the radiator into the wing cavity. The
warmed air would then be the heating element. I wonder if that would be
sufficient to prevent gelling and also provide some minor wing heat
without all the complexity.


You really need to take some physics and thermodynamics. Right now, you
need to buy a vowel.

I'm only kinda kidding. What you are proposing isn't being done, because it
won't work. Sorry.

Well, again, has anyone done the engineering on this?

As I understand it, what he's talking about is simply using underwing
radiators and ducting the exhaust air from the radiators through the
interior of the wings before allowing it to flow out of exhaust ports.
I can see how it might work, the question is how well it would work.
Would it provide enough heat to the wing skin to keep ice from adhering
to it?


AP

Thanks Allan,

One of the remaining issues of course is that it is my understanding
that it typically isn't the wing ice that kills you. It is the ice on
the elevator and horizontal stab. Doh! You end up trimming out the
effect of the ice until there is no more trim left and... Bonzai!

I only have 250 hours, and have never experienced icing personally.

Given that cabin heaters are only a foot or two of exhaust pipe, I to
have to second guess Jims assessment of the situation. Though I do
remember being a little frosty at 10K MSL in the winter in my M20E, I
did at least get _some_ heat.

1. With a liquid cooled engine you _have_ to have an auxillary heat
sync of some kind.

2. If waste heat can be used to improve safety or performance it should
be.

3. Using biodiesel presents additional safety hazards related
specifically to loss of thermal energy that _have_ to be engineered out
for the fuel to become suitable for aviation use.

From where I stand all of that kind of goes together.

Wait... let me get my rain coat. I hear Jim comming.

-Matt

On 26 Sep 2005 14:47:36 -0700, "
wrote:

Jet A1 is a little bit cheaper, but it need oil addition (2 strokes oil is
good but normal oil would be ok) for high pressure pump.


Have you heard of anyone cutting Jet A like your describing? I would
expect those engines are quite sensative. I'd be really nervous about
fuel/oil ratios doing that!

I recognize that they don't fly, but trucks have mixed kerosene
(sometimes called #1 fuel oil) and diesel (sometimes called #2 fuel
oil) in cold weather.

One of the company's that my father dealt with had a small kerosene
tank which they used before shutdown and to start.

It is interesting that #2 has more BTU/gallon than #1, so mileage is
slightly better on #2.

The lubricity issue is one that I asked a buddy of mine aobut when
Thielert said their "auto based" engine would run JetA ...

Enquiring minds would like to know more.

GeorgeB wrote:

On 26 Sep 2005 14:47:36 -0700, "
wrote:

Jet A1 is a little bit cheaper, but it need oil addition (2 strokes oil is
good but normal oil would be ok) for high pressure pump.


Have you heard of anyone cutting Jet A like your describing? I would
expect those engines are quite sensative. I'd be really nervous about
fuel/oil ratios doing that!

I recognize that they don't fly, but trucks have mixed kerosene
(sometimes called #1 fuel oil) and diesel (sometimes called #2 fuel
oil) in cold weather.

One of the company's that my father dealt with had a small kerosene
tank which they used before shutdown and to start.

It is interesting that #2 has more BTU/gallon than #1, so mileage is
slightly better on #2.

The lubricity issue is one that I asked a buddy of mine aobut when
Thielert said their "auto based" engine would run JetA ...

Enquiring minds would like to know more.

I have a picture somewhere of a Twin Otter in a small arctic community being
fueled from a truck clearly marked "Furnace Oil". Apparently these areas get one
boatload of fuel each summer to last the year, and it is Arctic Diesel or "P-50",
suitable for aircraft, diesel generators, stoves and just about anything else.
Normal diesel is definitely not used in aircraft because it can get cold at
altitude and the fuel jells.


--

John Halpenny

Truth is stranger than fiction.
This is why writers and readers are more comfortable with fiction.