Gas Prices -- Help at last?

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 21:38:39 GMT, .Blueskies. wrote:

Not exactly - everyone needs to get used to $6.00 a gallon gas, then the alternative energy possibilities will be cost
competitive.

now you are talking like a socialist European ... what a shame ...

:-)

#m

--
Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010920-8.html

"Martin Hotze" wrote in message ...
On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 21:38:39 GMT, .Blueskies. wrote:

Not exactly - everyone needs to get used to $6.00 a gallon gas, then the alternative energy possibilities will be cost
competitive.

now you are talking like a socialist European ... what a shame ...

:-)

#m

--
Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010920-8.html

No socialism here, just want to make sure the true costs are accounted for. Maybe the costs of roads should be captured
in the cost of a new car?

Matt Barrow wrote:

WHINE !! BITCH!! MOAN!! NOT IN MY BACK YARD!! I want gas! I want cheap gas!!
I want this I want that!

Grow the **** up, America!!


Matt, let me know when you can debate something without resorting to
personal attacks or insults, then I will debate it with you.

And.. I don't work in academia. I actually work for a living.

I also dont consider myself whining about prices for gas. I pay for it
as I go. Its nice to have enough disposable income to do so without
flinching.

The refineries ARE in my back yard. They pay their share in property
taxes to the localities and school systems. They also provide jobs to
the economy. I'd love for them to expand, and provide more capital to
our infrastructure here. But not at the cost of polluting unnecessarily.

Anyways, unless you have something meaningful to contribute to this
rather than unwarranted insults, I will leave you to your rant.

Dave

"Dave S" wrote in message
nk.net...


Matt Barrow wrote:

WHINE !! BITCH!! MOAN!! NOT IN MY BACK YARD!! I want gas! I want cheap
gas!! I want this I want that!

Grow the **** up, America!!


Matt, let me know when you can debate something without resorting to
personal attacks or insults, then I will debate it with you.

Well, Dave, my apologies because my last point was a general take, not
directed to you (notice I said' Grow up America", not "Grow up, Dave"). I
notice you have very strong leanings and understanding toward free markets.
I'm not concerned about you selling short :~)

I do know I tend to lose it when people make foolish caveats especially ones
that are logical fallacies such as "without all this regulation we'd be in
(insert Armageddon class crisis)".


And.. I don't work in academia. I actually work for a living.

That helps, but those in academia consider that they "work for a living",
too. What's more, working for a living is no basis for understanding how
markets work. Even many managers don't "get it". Many are hired for their
political acumen, not for their knowledge or leadership qualities.


I also dont consider myself whining about prices for gas. I pay for it as
I go. Its nice to have enough disposable income to do so without
flinching.

The refineries ARE in my back yard. They pay their share in property taxes
to the localities and school systems. They also provide jobs to the
economy. I'd love for them to expand, and provide more capital to our
infrastructure here. But not at the cost of polluting unnecessarily.

Yes, indeed. Thing is, like so much of life, regulation stopped having a
goal (reduced pollution) and became a goal in itself (i.e., self-serving
bureaucracies). For example, years ago, when the coal fired power plants
were first required to install "scrubbers", they regulations stipulated
levels caps for emissions. They were also ordered to install specific
equipment to reach those levels. As it was, the equipment mandated was
egregiously costly and maintenance was enormous. It also created a lot of
toxic waste to be disposed of. It turned out that emissions could have been
as good or better using other means of emissions reductions with less cost
and less maintenance. That's why I'm very skeptical of the fallacies that
"without all these regulations, ...blah, blah, blah).


Anyways, unless you have something meaningful to contribute to this rather
than unwarranted insults, I will leave you to your rant.

My rant addresses so many people that become enamored with a pristine world
and completely miss the points that, first, every advantage has it's costs,
that actions have consequences including "Unintended Consequences".

I also notice a strong propensity for those who demand a risk free life, a
pristine world, and great prosperity, are often the most vocal when their
actions play out. It's an attitude that is understandable for children, but
inexcusable for adults. Hence my admonishment to Americans in general to
"grow up". Such childish perspective is becoming the rule, rather than the
exception. That there is no Santa Claus is apparently missed by wayyy to
many.

Rant to continue later :~)

Dave, I consider you an ally, not an adversary in this topic. If my take was
fuzzy (duh!), my apologies.


--
Matt

---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Matt Barrow" wrote:

... I tend to lose it when people make foolish caveats especially ones
that are logical fallacies such as "without all this regulation we'd
be in (insert Armageddon class crisis)".

....or "without all this regulation we'd be in (insert free market
Utopia)."

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

OOOPS... Not YOU.. the OTHER MATT... whiting or something or other..

Whiting, if you are following this, my retort was for you, and you alone.

Dave

Matt Barrow wrote:
"Dave S" wrote in message
nk.net...


Matt Barrow wrote:

WHINE !! BITCH!! MOAN!! NOT IN MY BACK YARD!! I want gas! I want cheap
gas!! I want this I want that!

Grow the **** up, America!!


Matt, let me know when you can debate something without resorting to
personal attacks or insults, then I will debate it with you.


Well, Dave, my apologies because my last point was a general take, not
directed to you (notice I said' Grow up America", not "Grow up, Dave"). I
notice you have very strong leanings and understanding toward free markets.
I'm not concerned about you selling short :~)

I do know I tend to lose it when people make foolish caveats especially ones
that are logical fallacies such as "without all this regulation we'd be in
(insert Armageddon class crisis)".


And.. I don't work in academia. I actually work for a living.


That helps, but those in academia consider that they "work for a living",
too. What's more, working for a living is no basis for understanding how
markets work. Even many managers don't "get it". Many are hired for their
political acumen, not for their knowledge or leadership qualities.


I also dont consider myself whining about prices for gas. I pay for it as
I go. Its nice to have enough disposable income to do so without
flinching.

The refineries ARE in my back yard. They pay their share in property taxes
to the localities and school systems. They also provide jobs to the
economy. I'd love for them to expand, and provide more capital to our
infrastructure here. But not at the cost of polluting unnecessarily.


Yes, indeed. Thing is, like so much of life, regulation stopped having a
goal (reduced pollution) and became a goal in itself (i.e., self-serving
bureaucracies). For example, years ago, when the coal fired power plants
were first required to install "scrubbers", they regulations stipulated
levels caps for emissions. They were also ordered to install specific
equipment to reach those levels. As it was, the equipment mandated was
egregiously costly and maintenance was enormous. It also created a lot of
toxic waste to be disposed of. It turned out that emissions could have been
as good or better using other means of emissions reductions with less cost
and less maintenance. That's why I'm very skeptical of the fallacies that
"without all these regulations, ...blah, blah, blah).



Anyways, unless you have something meaningful to contribute to this rather
than unwarranted insults, I will leave you to your rant.


My rant addresses so many people that become enamored with a pristine world
and completely miss the points that, first, every advantage has it's costs,
that actions have consequences including "Unintended Consequences".

I also notice a strong propensity for those who demand a risk free life, a
pristine world, and great prosperity, are often the most vocal when their
actions play out. It's an attitude that is understandable for children, but
inexcusable for adults. Hence my admonishment to Americans in general to
"grow up". Such childish perspective is becoming the rule, rather than the
exception. That there is no Santa Claus is apparently missed by wayyy to
many.

Rant to continue later :~)

Dave, I consider you an ally, not an adversary in this topic. If my take was
fuzzy (duh!), my apologies.

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 12:46:28 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:

(And ours is NOTHING compared to most systems. You
should see Britain's Parliament in action!)

Jay, what do _you_ know about the British system?

#m

--
Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010920-8.html

(And ours is NOTHING compared to most systems. You
should see Britain's Parliament in action!)

Jay, what do _you_ know about the British system?

Why, only what they taught us at St. Catherine's High School, the
University of Wisconsin, what I read and, of course -- hilariously --
what I see on TV.

Those Brits are NUTS, God love 'em -- in a good way, of course.

:-)

Why?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
http://www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 12:46:28 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:

I'm not one to defend the oil companies, and I'm as ****ed about gas prices
as anyone.

really? last time I was in the US (2002) I paid less for gas than for
bottled water ... either your gas price is too low or you're asking too
much for (bottled) water.

#m

--
Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010920-8.html

Martin Hotze wrote:
On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 12:46:28 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:


I'm not one to defend the oil companies, and I'm as ****ed about gas prices
as anyone.


really? last time I was in the US (2002) I paid less for gas than for
bottled water ... either your gas price is too low or you're asking too
much for (bottled) water.

#m


Heh... and this is really the punchline. Think about it: crude oil is
far and away our civilizations most precious natural resource and it's
being sold for less than drinking water (or it had been up until now). I
don't think anyone really believes that prices like that are
sustainable, especially given that the oil supply is finite and
non-renewable.

Also, as someone else pointed out, them thar refineries ain't cheap. In
fact, those things cost buttloads of money to build, run and maintain.
Huge buttloads...... Not only that, don't forget about those oil rigs
down in the gulf that broke off their moorings during the hurricanes and
are now Galveston beachfront resorts. Those things are going to cost a
hell of a lot to replace too......

I hate to say it, but we're lucky to be paying only 3 bucks a gallon
given our current situation.....

LS
N646F