IFR/Flight Following -- ATC Preferences?

Matt Whiting wrote in
:

Judah wrote:

Matt Whiting wrote in
:

snip

He lost control of his airplane. This implies he wasn't capable of
flying the airplane in the prevailing conditions. To have the
outcome be different would have required someone else to be flying
the airplane.
Thus the above suggestion essentially implies that. That was my
point.


I never read anywhere that he lost control of his aircraft. In fact,
all reports indicated quite the opposite - that he maintained a
controlled flight directly into the water. If that's the case,
either
he was suicidal or he was disoriented.

That is an interesting definition of "control" that you are using.
If
the goal was to fly straight and level and you instead flew into the
water, then that is loss of control in my book. Anytime you aren't
making the airplane do what it should be doing, you are not in
control.

Matt

The controls functioned properly. They performed as the pilot
controlled them. The fact that the pilot was controlling them in a
manner that was inconsistent with what you perceive to be his goals
does not imply that he did not have control of the aircraft.

Judah wrote:
Matt Whiting wrote in
:


Judah wrote:


Matt Whiting wrote in
:

snip


He lost control of his airplane. This implies he wasn't capable of
flying the airplane in the prevailing conditions. To have the
outcome be different would have required someone else to be flying
the airplane.
Thus the above suggestion essentially implies that. That was my
point.


I never read anywhere that he lost control of his aircraft. In fact,
all reports indicated quite the opposite - that he maintained a
controlled flight directly into the water. If that's the case,

either

he was suicidal or he was disoriented.

That is an interesting definition of "control" that you are using.

If

the goal was to fly straight and level and you instead flew into the
water, then that is loss of control in my book. Anytime you aren't
making the airplane do what it should be doing, you are not in
control.

Matt


The controls functioned properly. They performed as the pilot
controlled them. The fact that the pilot was controlling them in a
manner that was inconsistent with what you perceive to be his goals
does not imply that he did not have control of the aircraft.

This is the most bizarre definition of being in control that I've ever
heard of. If someone wets their pants and didn't intend to, you say
they lost control of their bladder. The fact that their bladder did
just what it is supposed to do when the "valve" muscle relaxes is
completely irrelevant.

I never said that the controls didn't function correctly. That would be
a control system failure. The fact is that the pilot didn't have
control of his airplane. Having your hands on the controls and
manipulating the controls doesn't mean you are in control. A student
making his first landing attempt in an airplane is handling the controls
and the airplane is doing just what the student tells it to do, but,
except in very rare instances, no first time landing by a student is in
control to any great extent.


Matt

The controls functioned properly. They performed as the pilot
controlled them.

The same can be said of a car that is skidding off the side of the road.
The steering wheel didn't fail, and the wheels are still obeying the
laws of physics.

But the car =is= out of control.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
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"Judah" wrote in message
. ..

The controls functioned properly. They performed as the pilot
controlled them. The fact that the pilot was controlling them in a
manner that was inconsistent with what you perceive to be his goals
does not imply that he did not have control of the aircraft.


If you believe he was in controlled flight at the time he hit the water you
also have to believe this was not an accident but a murder-suicide instead.
What is your evidence of that?

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..

I never read anywhere that he lost control of his aircraft. In fact, all
reports indicated quite the opposite - that he maintained a controlled
flight directly into the water. If that's the case, either he was suicidal
or he was disoriented.


The NTSB report cites "failure to maintain control of the airplane during a
descent over water at night, which was a result of spatial disorientation"
as the probable cause of this accident. Every account I've seen agreed with
that, what are these conflicting reports you refer to?

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..

While I agree with the point that you are making here on Steve's behalf, I
don't think the original suggestion was that ATC can fly the plane for the
pilot, nor that your point is indeed Steve's.

Bob's original comment was, "JFK, Jr. was not required by regulation to
use flight following...but the outcome of his flight might have been
drastically different had he done so."

Steve then asked, "How would have flight following made a difference? He
didn't run into an unseen airplane." The implication being that the only
benefit of flight following is traffic alerts. When I brought up very
specific examples of benefits that one can get while getting flight
following, he dismissed it as unrelated to the flight following and
suggests that simply listening on the frequency is all that is necessary.


Please explain how a weather or turbulence report or personal greetings or a
brief personal conversation or even a sports score announcement may have
saved JFK Jr.



The original point - a suggestion that one can improve his/her safety by
using flight following - is completely lost in Steve's trial-lawyer
tactics. The fact remains, however, that even Steve concedes that simply
listening to the proper frequency can improve situational awareness, and
as such the original point is actually supported by Steve's own arguments.


Steve didn't concede that simply listening to the proper frequency can
improve situational awareness, Steve said that everything from weather and
turbulence reports to personal greetings and brief personal conversations or
even sports score announcements can be had by just being on the frequency.