Sold out by IFR

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Actually ending our dependence on foriegn oil would be pretty easy but
people don't want to do it. In round figures:

We import about a third of our Petroleum
Two thirds of petroleum is used for transportation

It is possible to cut transportation use in half through a combination
of
fuel efficiency and more efficient trip planning.

The reason we don't is that the costs are horrendous. As for trip planning
and fuel efficiency, I'd like to see how Soccer Mom's® driving SUV's and
mini-vans are going to improve their trip planning.



My wife goes to the grocery store (12 miles each way) almost everyday to
get something that she forgot the previous day, so she could certainly
improve her trip planning. As a result of cheap gasoline, people are living
great distances from their workplace with commutes of over an hour being
common in many parts of the country. If gasoline was $5/gallon you would
see commute distances shorten, more telecommuting, smaller vehicles, better
trip planning.

The economic costs of doing all this are tiny and probably there is actually
a benefit. If there was simply a $4 tax on gasoline and an equivenenat tax
credit (transferable) for income taxes, there would be no net economic cost
and a huge incentive to use energy more efficiently. There would be
casualties in businesses catering to people traveling by auto but that is
about it.

Mike
MU-2

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Actually ending our dependence on foriegn oil would be pretty easy but
people don't want to do it. In round figures:

We import about a third of our Petroleum
Two thirds of petroleum is used for transportation

It is possible to cut transportation use in half through a combination
of
fuel efficiency and more efficient trip planning.

The reason we don't is that the costs are horrendous. As for trip
planning
and fuel efficiency, I'd like to see how Soccer Mom's® driving SUV's and
mini-vans are going to improve their trip planning.



My wife goes to the grocery store (12 miles each way) almost everyday to
get something that she forgot the previous day, so she could certainly
improve her trip planning. As a result of cheap gasoline, people are
living
great distances from their workplace with commutes of over an hour being
common in many parts of the country. If gasoline was $5/gallon you would
see commute distances shorten, more telecommuting, smaller vehicles,
better
trip planning.

The economic costs of doing all this are tiny and probably there is
actually
a benefit. If there was simply a $4 tax on gasoline and an equivenenat
tax
credit (transferable) for income taxes, there would be no net economic
cost
and a huge incentive to use energy more efficiently. There would be
casualties in businesses catering to people traveling by auto but that is
about it.

What about the price of food?

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Actually ending our dependence on foriegn oil would be pretty easy
but
people don't want to do it. In round figures:

We import about a third of our Petroleum
Two thirds of petroleum is used for transportation

It is possible to cut transportation use in half through a
combination
of
fuel efficiency and more efficient trip planning.

The reason we don't is that the costs are horrendous. As for trip
planning
and fuel efficiency, I'd like to see how Soccer Mom's® driving SUV's
and
mini-vans are going to improve their trip planning.



My wife goes to the grocery store (12 miles each way) almost everyday
to
get something that she forgot the previous day, so she could certainly
improve her trip planning. As a result of cheap gasoline, people are
living
great distances from their workplace with commutes of over an hour being
common in many parts of the country. If gasoline was $5/gallon you
would
see commute distances shorten, more telecommuting, smaller vehicles,
better
trip planning.

The economic costs of doing all this are tiny and probably there is
actually
a benefit. If there was simply a $4 tax on gasoline and an equivenenat
tax
credit (transferable) for income taxes, there would be no net economic
cost
and a huge incentive to use energy more efficiently. There would be
casualties in businesses catering to people traveling by auto but that
is
about it.

What about the price of food?

It's amazing how people of an authoritarian bent can never see beyond the
first result.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Actually ending our dependence on foriegn oil would be pretty easy but
people don't want to do it. In round figures:

We import about a third of our Petroleum
Two thirds of petroleum is used for transportation

It is possible to cut transportation use in half through a combination
of
fuel efficiency and more efficient trip planning.

The reason we don't is that the costs are horrendous. As for trip
planning
and fuel efficiency, I'd like to see how Soccer Mom's® driving SUV's and
mini-vans are going to improve their trip planning.



My wife goes to the grocery store (12 miles each way) almost everyday to
get something that she forgot the previous day, so she could certainly
improve her trip planning. As a result of cheap gasoline, people are
living
great distances from their workplace with commutes of over an hour being
common in many parts of the country. If gasoline was $5/gallon you would
see commute distances shorten, more telecommuting, smaller vehicles,
better
trip planning.

The economic costs of doing all this are tiny and probably there is
actually
a benefit. If there was simply a $4 tax on gasoline and an equivenenat
tax
credit (transferable) for income taxes, there would be no net economic
cost
and a huge incentive to use energy more efficiently. There would be
casualties in businesses catering to people traveling by auto but that is
about it.

So, because people don't do what YOU want, you feel it's okay/imperative to
FORCE them to abide by your whims?

There's a name for that.

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Actually ending our dependence on foriegn oil would be pretty easy
but
people don't want to do it. In round figures:

We import about a third of our Petroleum
Two thirds of petroleum is used for transportation

It is possible to cut transportation use in half through a
combination
of
fuel efficiency and more efficient trip planning.

The reason we don't is that the costs are horrendous. As for trip
planning
and fuel efficiency, I'd like to see how Soccer Mom's® driving SUV's
and
mini-vans are going to improve their trip planning.



My wife goes to the grocery store (12 miles each way) almost everyday
to
get something that she forgot the previous day, so she could certainly
improve her trip planning. As a result of cheap gasoline, people are
living
great distances from their workplace with commutes of over an hour being
common in many parts of the country. If gasoline was $5/gallon you
would
see commute distances shorten, more telecommuting, smaller vehicles,
better
trip planning.

The economic costs of doing all this are tiny and probably there is
actually
a benefit. If there was simply a $4 tax on gasoline and an equivenenat
tax
credit (transferable) for income taxes, there would be no net economic
cost
and a huge incentive to use energy more efficiently. There would be
casualties in businesses catering to people traveling by auto but that
is
about it.

So, because people don't do what YOU want, you feel it's okay/imperative
to
FORCE them to abide by your whims?

There's a name for that.



You seem to miss the point. If you are taxed for something and given a
credit equal to the amount of the tax, nobody is *forced* to do anything.
Rather it is an opportunity to be better off by using less of the taxed
commodity.

Mike
MU-2

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Actually ending our dependence on foriegn oil would be pretty easy
but
people don't want to do it. In round figures:

We import about a third of our Petroleum
Two thirds of petroleum is used for transportation

It is possible to cut transportation use in half through a
combination
of
fuel efficiency and more efficient trip planning.

The reason we don't is that the costs are horrendous. As for trip
planning
and fuel efficiency, I'd like to see how Soccer Mom's® driving SUV's
and
mini-vans are going to improve their trip planning.



My wife goes to the grocery store (12 miles each way) almost everyday
to
get something that she forgot the previous day, so she could certainly
improve her trip planning. As a result of cheap gasoline, people are
living
great distances from their workplace with commutes of over an hour
being
common in many parts of the country. If gasoline was $5/gallon you
would
see commute distances shorten, more telecommuting, smaller vehicles,
better
trip planning.

The economic costs of doing all this are tiny and probably there is
actually
a benefit. If there was simply a $4 tax on gasoline and an
equivenenat
tax
credit (transferable) for income taxes, there would be no net economic
cost
and a huge incentive to use energy more efficiently. There would be
casualties in businesses catering to people traveling by auto but that
is
about it.

So, because people don't do what YOU want, you feel it's okay/imperative
to
FORCE them to abide by your whims?

There's a name for that.



You seem to miss the point. If you are taxed for something and given a
credit equal to the amount of the tax, nobody is *forced* to do anything.
Rather it is an opportunity to be better off by using less of the taxed
commodity.

So...if the credit is equal to the tax, it's then a "wash" and the only
increase will be in the bureaucracy that tracks both sides.

I'll bet you one thing; the tax will go in place, but the credit won't, or
it will sunset (but not the tax),

Remember that "prices are measures" . When you try to manipulate them, up or
down, you're interfering with a market...that is, people making free
choices.

I would think that with the track record that government and the bureaucracy
has garnered over the past 100+ years, that no one in their right mind would
concoct such manipulative schemes.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

My wife goes to the grocery store (12 miles each way) almost everyday to
get something that she forgot the previous day, so she could certainly
improve her trip planning. As a result of cheap gasoline, people are living
great distances from their workplace with commutes of over an hour being
common in many parts of the country. If gasoline was $5/gallon you would
see commute distances shorten, more telecommuting, smaller vehicles, better
trip planning.

The economic costs of doing all this are tiny and probably there is actually
a benefit. If there was simply a $4 tax on gasoline and an equivenenat tax
credit (transferable) for income taxes, there would be no net economic cost
and a huge incentive to use energy more efficiently. There would be
casualties in businesses catering to people traveling by auto but that is
about it.

Mike
MU-2



Mike - I don't agree with your statement that there are no economic
costs. The government bureacracy to administer a $4 dollar fuel tax
and process a $4 income tax credit would be enormous.

Also, I presume you would be in favor of refunding your $4 fuel tax to
lower income people who don't pay income tax or pay it at low marginal
rates? If not, then you are really looking at an additional tax on
middle/lower income people at $4 per gallon. If you are interested
in refunding the tax irrespective of taxable income, then you haven't
really caused anyone to change their driving habits - you've just
created a new government department to collect money and refund it to
the same people.

I like a lot of your ideas on this newsgroup. This one, though,
doesn't seem to be as practical as many of your other ones. John

"John" wrote in message
om...
My wife goes to the grocery store (12 miles each way) almost everyday
to
get something that she forgot the previous day, so she could certainly
improve her trip planning. As a result of cheap gasoline, people are
living
great distances from their workplace with commutes of over an hour being
common in many parts of the country. If gasoline was $5/gallon you
would
see commute distances shorten, more telecommuting, smaller vehicles,
better
trip planning.

The economic costs of doing all this are tiny and probably there is
actually
a benefit. If there was simply a $4 tax on gasoline and an equivenenat
tax
credit (transferable) for income taxes, there would be no net economic
cost
and a huge incentive to use energy more efficiently. There would be
casualties in businesses catering to people traveling by auto but that
is
about it.

Mike
MU-2



Mike - I don't agree with your statement that there are no economic
costs. The government bureacracy to administer a $4 dollar fuel tax
and process a $4 income tax credit would be enormous.

Also, I presume you would be in favor of refunding your $4 fuel tax to
lower income people who don't pay income tax or pay it at low marginal
rates? If not, then you are really looking at an additional tax on
middle/lower income people at $4 per gallon. If you are interested
in refunding the tax irrespective of taxable income, then you haven't
really caused anyone to change their driving habits - you've just
created a new government department to collect money and refund it to
the same people.

Less 25% for administrative costs.

Food stamps delive 22 cents on the dollar in benifits to the end user.

"John" wrote in message
om...
My wife goes to the grocery store (12 miles each way) almost everyday
to
get something that she forgot the previous day, so she could certainly
improve her trip planning. As a result of cheap gasoline, people are
living
great distances from their workplace with commutes of over an hour being
common in many parts of the country. If gasoline was $5/gallon you
would
see commute distances shorten, more telecommuting, smaller vehicles,
better
trip planning.

The economic costs of doing all this are tiny and probably there is
actually
a benefit. If there was simply a $4 tax on gasoline and an equivenenat
tax
credit (transferable) for income taxes, there would be no net economic
cost
and a huge incentive to use energy more efficiently. There would be
casualties in businesses catering to people traveling by auto but that
is
about it.

Mike
MU-2



Mike - I don't agree with your statement that there are no economic
costs. The government bureacracy to administer a $4 dollar fuel tax
and process a $4 income tax credit would be enormous.

Also, I presume you would be in favor of refunding your $4 fuel tax to
lower income people who don't pay income tax or pay it at low marginal
rates? If not, then you are really looking at an additional tax on
middle/lower income people at $4 per gallon. If you are interested
in refunding the tax irrespective of taxable income, then you haven't
really caused anyone to change their driving habits - you've just
created a new government department to collect money and refund it to
the same people.

I like a lot of your ideas on this newsgroup. This one, though,
doesn't seem to be as practical as many of your other ones. John

The topic started out as a way to end our dependence on imported oil. The
whole gas tax idea is simply a way to provide an incentive to conserve. My
only point is that it would be relatively easy to end our dependence on
imported oil if we really wanted to do it. Collecting such a tax would be
fairly easy since there is already a federal tax on gasoline, only the
amount would be changed. I agree that the refunding portion would be
problematic.

Mike
MU-2

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
hlink.net...

I like a lot of your ideas on this newsgroup. This one, though,
doesn't seem to be as practical as many of your other ones. John

The topic started out as a way to end our dependence on imported oil. The
whole gas tax idea is simply a way to provide an incentive to conserve.
My
only point is that it would be relatively easy to end our dependence on
imported oil if we really wanted to do it. Collecting such a tax would be
fairly easy since there is already a federal tax on gasoline, only the
amount would be changed. I agree that the refunding portion would be
problematic.

What you suggest was tried in '93, but North Easterners are not about to
have their fuel oil taxed. The economic impact is basicly a cash transfer
from everone else into New England.