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#1
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Tomahawk/ Skipper
These planes look like clones of each other. I like the looks but does
anyone have experience in both to compare the two? -- Patrick Dixon student SP aircraft structural mech |
#2
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Tomahawk/ Skipper
Beech Skipper Model 77 is a well constructed airplane with
Beech quality systems. It spins are well behaved and predictable. There was some industrial espionage that got the general layout to Piper and they got on the market first. Had a lot of problems with the first 1,000 planes or so, construction was often sloppy, things like the control wheel breaking off in the pilots' hands (both) and they had to do a lot of spin fixes, which involved stall strips. The location of the stall strips varies from plane to plane because the wings are different. Both airplanes have good visibility and hot cockpits as a result. Both could use about 25 more HP. When I win the lottery I would buy a Skipper and put an IO-320 or 360 engine on the front with a CS prop. The Skipper is a lot of fun to fly and it is a stick and rudder airplane. Taught quit a few CFIs how to fly in a Skipper, little time in a Tomahawk. My opinion, Beech did it right, Piper did it quick. -- James H. Macklin ATP,CFI,A&P -- The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome. some support http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm "W P Dixon" wrote in message ... | These planes look like clones of each other. I like the looks but does | anyone have experience in both to compare the two? | | -- | Patrick Dixon | student SP | aircraft structural mech | |
#3
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Tomahawk/ Skipper
W P Dixon wrote:
These planes look like clones of each other. I like the looks but does anyone have experience in both to compare the two? They're not real clones, just the product of the marketing design ideas of the seventies when they were developed. Wanted to distinguish themselves from the 150/152 which really looked no different than the rest of the post-war Cessna line. T-tails of the seventies were the swept tails of the sixties. Biggest problem with the the skipper, was the price. Hard to compete against cheaper stuff in the training market especially as the late 70's were also are last great "Fuel Price is going to kill aviation" era. The skipper is pretty much typical Beech. There were more Tomahawks built (about 2500 compared to 300 for the skipper). Tomahawks have had their series of problems over the years between a whole slew of AD's for manufacturing quality issues and a few issues with the spin recovery. They both fly well...tomahawk performance is slightly better. The skipper was pretty much a orphan child in our FBO...most opted to train in the 172's even for a few bucks more an hour. Both of these birds are getting a bit long in the tooth these days. |
#4
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Tomahawk/ Skipper
On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 08:28:24 -0600, "Jim Macklin"
wrote in kb1ef.1110$QW2.1065@dukeread08:: Beech Skipper Model 77 is a well constructed airplane with Beech quality systems. That probably means that maintenance costs are higher than the Tomahawk. Both could use about 25 more HP. When I win the lottery I would buy a Skipper and put an IO-320 or 360 engine on the front with a CS prop. Is this truly something that could be done safely? Would the wing structure and airframe withstand the increased stresses of higher speeds and increased weight? Is it possible to shoehorn an IO-360 into the original cowl? Could the W&B changes be overcome? My opinion, Beech did it right, Piper did it quick. Additionally, there is finite fatigue life limit specification of 11,000 hours on the Tomahawk wing. Those near the limit are sold at bargain prices. More he http://groups.google.dk/group/rec.av...4d319b06a8 1d http://groups.google.dk/group/rec.av...9e893f29db 9c http://groups.google.dk/group/rec.av...3c06289b44 59 http://groups.google.dk/group/rec.av...59a0709830 aa http://groups.google.dk/group/rec.av...2e0740dcfc 44 http://groups.google.dk/group/rec.av...ed6a96abec 0d |
#5
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Tomahawk/ Skipper
When I win the lottery I would buy a Skipper and put an IO-320 or 360 engine on the front with a CS prop.
You need to raise your sights a bit, Jim - MY "lottery plane" is a TBM700C2, but then again, to each his own... : ) Having learned in a Traumahawk 10 years ago, I can personally attest to the low power and VERY study undercarraige, as there were quite a few carrier landings those planes survived courtesy of yours truly. It wasn't until after I finished the PPL that I started reading about the stall/spin accidents in the PA-38. Yikes. |
#6
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Tomahawk/ Skipper
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#7
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Tomahawk/ Skipper
I've given Private Pilot training to a couple students in Tomahawks. My
understanding is that they had some strange stall behavior at one time but since the FAA's mandated stall strips were added they have had no problems. I found it to be a very nice plane to stall. It does spin easier by design. CFIs were complaining that it was too hard to give spin training in the Cessna 150 so better spin training became a requrement of the Tomahawk. Nowadays people don't tend to do spin training for privates so no one cares. If you read the Tomahawk web pages you'll see that there appear to be more reasonable answers to the few spin accidents that have hurt the Tomahawk reputation. The main benefit of the T over the Skipper is better support from a larger fleet. |
#8
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Tomahawk/ Skipper
The
worst thing I can say about a Tomahawk is that you have to fly the thing 100% of the time. For that reason, it makes a great trainer. ;-) When I fly, I always hand fly. I've played with the autopilot a few times, for a few minutes, but I feel like a passenger if my hand is not on the yoke. Maybe it's because I trained in a Tomahawk. I liked the plane - peppy, good viz; when I transitioned to a 152 it was a dog by comparison. It always rattled the tail in stalls, and my instructor would cast a worried look back there. What did I know about tails - I was just a student. Jose -- He who laughs, lasts. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#9
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Tomahawk/ Skipper
If I had won the big lottery a few weeks ago, my personal
flight department would be these airplanes... A Beechjet 400A (now called a Hawker 400) since I am already typed in it. A Beech 1900 to carry my Harleys around to Sturgis(typed in that too.) A Helio Courier on floats A Legacy Cub A G36 Bonanza A Pitts S2 A Skipper with a big engine A Duchess with two bigger engines and floats And I'd build a 50% scale A10 with a 7.63 minigun in the nose. BTW, the TBM700 was the Mooney 301, I was there for the first public flight at Kerrville. Nice airplane. I liked the report about the student who had the control wheel break in his hand and then the CFI took control and his wheel broke too. Many CFIs took to carrying ViseGrip pliers to use as an emergency handle. The PA38 was an adventure. -- James H. Macklin ATP,CFI,A&P -- The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome. some support http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm wrote in message oups.com... | When I win the lottery I would buy a Skipper and put an IO-320 or 360 engine on the front with a CS prop. | | You need to raise your sights a bit, Jim - MY "lottery plane" is a | TBM700C2, but then again, to each his own... : ) | | Having learned in a Traumahawk 10 years ago, I can personally attest to | the low power and VERY study undercarraige, as there were quite a few | carrier landings those planes survived courtesy of yours truly. It | wasn't until after I finished the PPL that I started reading about the | stall/spin accidents in the PA-38. Yikes. | |
#10
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Tomahawk/ Skipper
Fellow on ebay was auctioning off some flight time in a Tomahawk. I like the
way the Tomahawks and Skippers look . Thought it might be fun to fly one before I get my SP cert. Use it to get some controlled airspace time in. Thanks to everyone for all the info. Most definitely gets your attention if your control falls apart in your hand! WOW talk about a bad feeling! Patrick student SP aircraft structural mech "Jim Macklin" wrote in message news:MS7ef.1147$QW2.4@dukeread08... If I had won the big lottery a few weeks ago, my personal flight department would be these airplanes... A Beechjet 400A (now called a Hawker 400) since I am already typed in it. A Beech 1900 to carry my Harleys around to Sturgis(typed in that too.) A Helio Courier on floats A Legacy Cub A G36 Bonanza A Pitts S2 A Skipper with a big engine A Duchess with two bigger engines and floats And I'd build a 50% scale A10 with a 7.63 minigun in the nose. BTW, the TBM700 was the Mooney 301, I was there for the first public flight at Kerrville. Nice airplane. I liked the report about the student who had the control wheel break in his hand and then the CFI took control and his wheel broke too. Many CFIs took to carrying ViseGrip pliers to use as an emergency handle. The PA38 was an adventure. -- James H. Macklin ATP,CFI,A&P -- The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome. some support http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm wrote in message oups.com... | When I win the lottery I would buy a Skipper and put an IO-320 or 360 engine on the front with a CS prop. | | You need to raise your sights a bit, Jim - MY "lottery plane" is a | TBM700C2, but then again, to each his own... : ) | | Having learned in a Traumahawk 10 years ago, I can personally attest to | the low power and VERY study undercarraige, as there were quite a few | carrier landings those planes survived courtesy of yours truly. It | wasn't until after I finished the PPL that I started reading about the | stall/spin accidents in the PA-38. Yikes. | |
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