Private Planes: Freedom, Security, and Responsibility

In article
outaviation.com,
"Skylune" wrote:

by Skywise into@[EMAIL PROTECTED] Dec 14, 2005 at 11:01 PM


"Skylune" live-ski-or-die@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote in
news:41fa639112b9db427c25872b82d6d0ba@[EMAIL PROTECTED]

I need to pull out the handy John Adams quote again: "Facts are
stubborn
things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the
dictates
of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

Pot - kettle - black.

Brian

Name a single example of factual misstatement. One.



It is misstatement by implication. Saying that you can be killed if a
plane falls on you is a fact. Using that fact to say that airplanes
represent a public hazard is a misstatement by implication.

The same "logic" is used to excuse the Draconian measures taken around
the DC area.

--
Remve "_" from email to reply to me personally.

by Orval Fairbairn o_r_fairbairn@[EMAIL PROTECTED] Dec 19, 2005 at
09:28 PM




Name a single example of factual misstatement. One.



It is misstatement by implication. Saying that you can be killed if a
plane falls on you is a fact. Using that fact to say that airplanes
represent a public hazard is a misstatement by implication.

The same "logic" is used to excuse the Draconian measures taken around
the DC area.

OK, but who ever said an airplane is a public safety hazard? Certainly
not me. Ever.

Certain pilots create a nuisance, but that is clearly not the same thing.

On 2005-12-14, Skylune wrote:
I also "suspect" this could have been done with MS Flight Sim. But, that
is not what really happened. Fact: The terrorists trained at GA schools.

A fact, but it's totally irrelevant. Given most of the terrorists didn't
have any kind of criminal record and at the time were in the United
States perfectly legally, there is no way you could have denied them
training unless you imposed a rule 'brown skinned people and foreigners
are not to be trained'. Even with today's TSA rules, these people would
have been approved for training.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

wrote:

Come on, Sky-buffoon... Who could have ever imagined airliners being
used in such an insidious and evil way before 9/11?

Didn't one of those "Jack Ryan" novels have an airliner deliberately crashed
into Congress?

- Andrew

Didn't the Kamikaze pilots crash into ships during WWII?


"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
| wrote:
|
| Come on, Sky-buffoon... Who could have ever imagined
airliners being
| used in such an insidious and evil way before 9/11?
|
| Didn't one of those "Jack Ryan" novels have an airliner
deliberately crashed
| into Congress?
|
| - Andrew
|

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 15:22:39 -0500, Andrew Gideon
wrote:

wrote:

Come on, Sky-buffoon... Who could have ever imagined airliners being
used in such an insidious and evil way before 9/11?

Didn't one of those "Jack Ryan" novels have an airliner deliberately crashed
into Congress?

"Debt of Honor" (paperback was published June 1994, I can't seem to
find the publish date for the hardcover offhand, but was likely late
93/early 94).

Peter Clark wrote:

"Debt of Honor" (paperback was published June 1994, I can't seem to
find the publish date for the hardcover offhand, but was likely late
93/early 94).

Amazon is reporting the hard-cover publishing date as August 17, 1994.


--
Peter

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
wrote:

Come on, Sky-buffoon... Who could have ever imagined airliners being
used in such an insidious and evil way before 9/11?

Didn't one of those "Jack Ryan" novels have an airliner deliberately
crashed
into Congress?

- Andrew


Yep in Debt of Honor by a senior Japan Air pilot.

On 2005-12-14, wrote:
Would one expect GA schools to act responsibly and admit their failure to
provide adequate security previous to 9/11?

Come on, Sky-buffoon... Who could have ever imagined airliners being
used in such an insidious and evil way before 9/11?

Not wanting to give Skylune further ammunition (really, it's irrelevant
where the terrorists trained - it included *airline* training in airline
sims, too) - actually, there have been attempts to use airliners in this
way in the past. The most notable attempt was a FedEx DC-10 in 1994,
where a disgruntled worker who was going to be fired attempted to kill
all three crew members and crash the plane into FedEx headquarters.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

The most notable attempt was a FedEx DC-10 in 1994,
where a disgruntled worker who was going to be fired attempted to kill
all three crew members and crash the plane into FedEx headquarters

IIRC that was motivated not by any overt act of terrorism but by the
wacko's plan that his kids would collect on his life insurance policy
if he died in a company acft. Of course, this wouldn't matter to the
people on the ground where the plane came down..