Broken wing

Bob Moore wrote:

Matt Whiting wrote


Except the Electra wasn't a jet. Maybe you are thinking of the
Comet.


Well...the Electras that I flew certainly had "jet" engines.
Even burned kerosene. :-)

Gee, Bob, you should know the difference between a turbine engine used
as a propjet from one used as a pure jet. :-)

Matt

Matt Whiting wrote

Gee, Bob, you should know the difference between a turbine
engine used as a propjet from one used as a pure jet. :-)

Hey! Eastern Airlines called them "Prop Jets".
By the definitions posted here, there are no "Jet" airliners
currently flying, since they are all "Turbo Fans". Right??? :-)

Bob Moore

Bob Moore wrote:
Matt Whiting wrote


Gee, Bob, you should know the difference between a turbine
engine used as a propjet from one used as a pure jet. :-)


Hey! Eastern Airlines called them "Prop Jets".
By the definitions posted here, there are no "Jet" airliners
currently flying, since they are all "Turbo Fans". Right??? :-)

The still derive significant thrust from the exhaust jet, but I'll grant
you that it is getting much grayer as the bypass ratios keep increasing.
:-)

Then again, if it was black and white, what would we have to argue about
here? Things would get dull in a hurry.

Matt

Bob Moore wrote:

Matt Whiting wrote

Gee, Bob, you should know the difference between a turbine
engine used as a propjet from one used as a pure jet. :-)

Hey! Eastern Airlines called them "Prop Jets".

The airline marketing departments purposely blurred the definitions in the
1950s. American called Electras "Jet Powered Flagships". Braniff called
them "Jet Power Electras". I seem to remember one airline declaring that
they had an all-jet fleet when they phased out their last piston aircraft,
but still flew turboprops.

Bob Moore wrote:
Matt Whiting wrote

Except the Electra wasn't a jet. Maybe you are thinking of the
Comet.

Well...the Electras that I flew certainly had "jet" engines.
Even burned kerosene. :-)

Bob Moore

The ones I flew had jet turbine engines but they were geared to propellors
which makes a difference. They are generally referred to as turboprops
whereas the term jet normally refers to a jet engine without external
propellors. But the difference is decreasing since most high-bypass jet
engines now have internal rotors which produce more than half the thrust
using propellor type action but within the engine frame. That air doesn't
even go through the combutions chambers, it bypasses them, hence the term
high-bypass.

But you knew that, Bob, I just mentioned it for those who didn't.

--

Darrell R. Schmidt
B-58 Hustler History: http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/
-

Hi I'm lonely, and I want my mommy...

In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:

Stubby wrote:

Way back, I believe the first jet passenger jet was the Lockheed
Electra. The plane mysteriously fell out of the air and very thorough
search for a cause was instituted. In the end, again if I remember
correctly, the conclusion was that the wing spar failed from fatigue
because the wing was nutating, a slight circular motion due to
gyroscopic effects.

Maybe that's the same thing caused the FL seaplane crash.

Except the Electra wasn't a jet. Maybe you are thinking of the Comet.

The Electra did, however, have a string of catastrophic early failures,
which were eventually traced to metal fatigue in the wing or fuselage
structure caused by a vibration or oscillation that occurred in flight
and was associated with the design of the plane; and the Comet had a
series of catastrophic early failures which were eventually traced to
metal fatigue and crack grown around the windows occurring after
multiple pressurization and depressurization cycles. Both were prime
examples of the learning process associated with civil aviation and
aviation technology.

Am I recalling this correctly?

Are you thinking the English Comet? It had several inflight mysterious
breakups before it was discovered that the square windows created
stress fractures after several pressurization cycles. I believe it was
the first pax airline.

"Stubby" wrote in message
. ..

Way back, I believe the first jet passenger jet was the Lockheed Electra.

The first jet airliner was the de Havilland Comet. The Lockheed Electra
you're referring to was a turboprop.

Stubby wrote:
Way back, I believe the first jet passenger jet was the Lockheed
Electra. The plane mysteriously fell out of the air and very thorough
search for a cause was instituted.

Sounds like you're confusing it with the DeHaviland Comet. The cause was
eventually determined to be the rapid formation of stress cracks around the
corners of the rectangular cabin windows.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.