Another ADIZ violation?

Yeah it happened.
The guy took off from Hyde went somewhere and tried to come back in. Had
a "total electrical failure" and ended up landing at Maryland Airport.
Michelle

Wiz wrote:

All:

I heard a lot of air activity over my Washington, DC home today, and
was told later by a friend that an 84-year-old pilot had a total
electrical failure on the way from Stafford, VA (KRMN), where
maintenance was being performed on his plane. According to my friend,
the pilot landed at Indian Head, MD (2W5) after violating the
Washington DC ADIZ airspace, and didn't even see the intercept chopper
until it landed with him. Don't know how accurate these details are,
haven't seen any news on it yet.

Paradoxically, every time someone accidentally violates the ADIZ, it
reinforces the notion for some people that we really need the ADIZ...

I'm not familiar with the area with regards to the airspace
but with the IAD and BWI Class B plus the ADIZ, it must
be pretty easy to bust with everything working.
More importantly, I don't think the guy busted ANYTHING
per 91.3. A complete electrical failure is an emergency in my
book. If I had a complete electrical failure I'd
land wherever the hell *I* felt like it as long as my
butt was safe in the end. When the blackhawks
showed up, I'd be more than happy to have an
escort to airport of *my* choosing. I'll deal
with any paperwork on the ground.

Gerald



Michelle P wrote:
Yeah it happened.
The guy took off from Hyde went somewhere and tried to come back in. Had
a "total electrical failure" and ended up landing at Maryland Airport.
Michelle

Wiz wrote:

All:

I heard a lot of air activity over my Washington, DC home today, and
was told later by a friend that an 84-year-old pilot had a total
electrical failure on the way from Stafford, VA (KRMN), where
maintenance was being performed on his plane. According to my friend,
the pilot landed at Indian Head, MD (2W5) after violating the
Washington DC ADIZ airspace, and didn't even see the intercept chopper
until it landed with him. Don't know how accurate these details are,
haven't seen any news on it yet.

Paradoxically, every time someone accidentally violates the ADIZ, it
reinforces the notion for some people that we really need the ADIZ...

Gerald wrote:
I'm not familiar with the area with regards to the airspace but with the IAD and BWI Class B

Hyde is also a stone throw from Andrews AFB.

The Monk

The problem is if you have a communications or transponder problem then
you must turn around and leave the ADIZ on the most direct route out and
away from the center. He may not have done this. Maryland (2W5) is
inside the ADIZ. I have not talked to him yet. He was leaving the
airport when I was just landing from my morning Traffic run.
Michelle

GS wrote:

I'm not familiar with the area with regards to the airspace
but with the IAD and BWI Class B plus the ADIZ, it must
be pretty easy to bust with everything working.
More importantly, I don't think the guy busted ANYTHING
per 91.3. A complete electrical failure is an emergency in my
book. If I had a complete electrical failure I'd
land wherever the hell *I* felt like it as long as my
butt was safe in the end. When the blackhawks
showed up, I'd be more than happy to have an
escort to airport of *my* choosing. I'll deal
with any paperwork on the ground.

Gerald



Michelle P wrote:

Yeah it happened.
The guy took off from Hyde went somewhere and tried to come back in.
Had a "total electrical failure" and ended up landing at Maryland
Airport.
Michelle

Wiz wrote:

All:

I heard a lot of air activity over my Washington, DC home today, and
was told later by a friend that an 84-year-old pilot had a total
electrical failure on the way from Stafford, VA (KRMN), where
maintenance was being performed on his plane. According to my friend,
the pilot landed at Indian Head, MD (2W5) after violating the
Washington DC ADIZ airspace, and didn't even see the intercept chopper
until it landed with him. Don't know how accurate these details are,
haven't seen any news on it yet.

Paradoxically, every time someone accidentally violates the ADIZ, it
reinforces the notion for some people that we really need the ADIZ...

In article . net,
Michelle P wrote:

The problem is if you have a communications or transponder problem then
you must turn around and leave the ADIZ on the most direct route out and
away from the center. He may not have done this. Maryland (2W5) is
inside the ADIZ. I have not talked to him yet. He was leaving the
airport when I was just landing from my morning Traffic run.
Michelle

The problem here is that you really don't know if your TXP has failed if
you can't communicate with anyone. Transmitters are usually the first
things to go off line when the voltage drops.

--
Remve "_" from email to reply to me personally.

Is a transponder not a transmitter? Output power is directly related to
voltage.

I was flying back from PA to Columbus, OH a few weeks ago and lost the
alternator. I was talking with Indy center. I shut off everything but the
transponder, one comm and the tail strobe. Eventually, the controller asked
for my altitude, as the voltage had apparently dropped enough that she
wasn't getting a reply, but I was still able to communicate.

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news
In article . net,
Michelle P wrote:

The problem is if you have a communications or transponder problem then
you must turn around and leave the ADIZ on the most direct route out and
away from the center. He may not have done this. Maryland (2W5) is
inside the ADIZ. I have not talked to him yet. He was leaving the
airport when I was just landing from my morning Traffic run.
Michelle

The problem here is that you really don't know if your TXP has failed if
you can't communicate with anyone. Transmitters are usually the first
things to go off line when the voltage drops.

--
Remve "_" from email to reply to me personally.

Michelle P wrote:

The problem is if you have a communications or transponder problem then
you must turn around and leave the ADIZ on the most direct route out and
away from the center.

Depending upon the circumstances of the failure (ie. a complete electrical
failure in IMC but still near an airport), departing an airport's area
would compound the problem. I don't know the circumstances of this pilot's
difficulty or response, but I could easily see following the aforementioned
rule being the wrong choice in at least some cases.

That is a perspective I've yet to notice: the ADIZ is unsafe.

- Andrew

GS wrote:
I'm not familiar with the area with regards to the airspace
but with the IAD and BWI Class B plus the ADIZ, it must
be pretty easy to bust with everything working.
More importantly, I don't think the guy busted ANYTHING
per 91.3. A complete electrical failure is an emergency in my
book. If I had a complete electrical failure I'd
land wherever the hell *I* felt like it as long as my
butt was safe in the end.

91.3 doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you want. It gives you
the authority to deviate from the rules *to the extent required* to deal
with the emergency.

What were the flight conditions? Day-VFR in a typical light plane, for
example, total electrical failure should be a complete non-event, and
certainly doesn't justify calling 91.3 into play.

91.3 doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you want. It gives you
the authority to deviate from the rules *to the extent required* to deal
with the emergency.

.... and a communication failure in the ADIZ is a bona fide emergency
even in circumstances which, outside the ADIZ, would be a non-event. It
may well be better to turn around and land nearby than to point the nose
outward and drone on for fifteen minutes in an unexpected direction.
Those are real guns and missles the fighters carry, and they have almost
been used too often for my comfort.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Actually, I believe the ADIZ procedure in case of communications
failure, as Michelle stated, is to exit the ADIZ by the shortest
possible route. I once was asked by Potomac to try to help communicate
with a guy who discovered after takeoff that he wasn't receiving. The
other pilot kep declaring his intention to return to the airport (he
was able to transmit) and the controller kept frantically trying to
tell him not to land but to exit the ADIZ.

Wiz