Can a Plane on a Treadmill Take Off?

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message ...
"Flyingmonk" wrote in message oups.com...
Depends on the airplane, certain lpanes are built in such a way that
they can actually attain enough lift just from the prop wash alone.

Other than the ones we call helicopters, I've never heard of such a thing.

Care to elaborate?
Tilt wing... Osprey?
Ducking and running! :' )

Joe Schneider
8437R



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"Flyingmonk" wrote

Depends on the airplane, certain lpanes are built in such a way that
they can actually attain enough lift just from the prop wash alone.

How many buckets of prop wash would it take?

If you tie a 100 foot rope to the tail of an airplane (or some other
part of the airframe), attach it to a good strong post, and run the
propellor up to whatever rpm is available, is anyone claiming the
airplane can then lift up say a feet off the ground?

(Assuming the tail doesn't tear off)

(and, a conveyor belt under the airplane is optional)

Depends on the airplane, if a plane is built in such a way that it can
actually attain enough lift just from the prop wash alone than yes.

The Monk

Flyingmonk wrote:
If you tie a 100 foot rope to the tail of an airplane (or some other
part of the airframe), attach it to a good strong post, and run the
propellor up to whatever rpm is available, is anyone claiming the
airplane can then lift up say a feet off the ground?

(Assuming the tail doesn't tear off)

(and, a conveyor belt under the airplane is optional)

Depends on the airplane, if a plane is built in such a way that it can
actually attain enough lift just from the prop wash alone than yes.

The Monk


Yeah Monk that airplane is called a helicopter.

Category and class of aircraft...
aircraft includes all types of flying machines.

AIRPLANE does not include helicopters, see FAR Part 1

ASEL ASES AMEL AMES the A means category airplane and the
rest is the class
AMEL B747 includes the type.

Rotorcraft is the category and helicopter is the class.

--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.



"601XL Builder" wrDOTgiacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
news:43E62B1E.6080403@coxDOTnet...
| Flyingmonk wrote:
| If you tie a 100 foot rope to the tail of an airplane
(or some other
| part of the airframe), attach it to a good strong post,
and run the
| propellor up to whatever rpm is available, is anyone
claiming the
| airplane can then lift up say a feet off the ground?
|
| (Assuming the tail doesn't tear off)
|
| (and, a conveyor belt under the airplane is optional)
|
| Depends on the airplane, if a plane is built in such a
way that it can
| actually attain enough lift just from the prop wash
alone than yes.
|
| The Monk
|
|
| Yeah Monk that airplane is called a helicopter.

It was a joke James. I'll bet The Monk got it.





"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:UtqFf.75785$QW2.44974@dukeread08...
Category and class of aircraft...
aircraft includes all types of flying machines.

AIRPLANE does not include helicopters, see FAR Part 1

ASEL ASES AMEL AMES the A means category airplane and the
rest is the class
AMEL B747 includes the type.

Rotorcraft is the category and helicopter is the class.

--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.



"601XL Builder" wrDOTgiacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
news:43E62B1E.6080403@coxDOTnet...
| Flyingmonk wrote:
| If you tie a 100 foot rope to the tail of an airplane
(or some other
| part of the airframe), attach it to a good strong post,
and run the
| propellor up to whatever rpm is available, is anyone
claiming the
| airplane can then lift up say a feet off the ground?
|
| (Assuming the tail doesn't tear off)
|
| (and, a conveyor belt under the airplane is optional)
|
| Depends on the airplane, if a plane is built in such a
way that it can
| actually attain enough lift just from the prop wash
alone than yes.
|
| The Monk
|
|
| Yeah Monk that airplane is called a helicopter.

The mistake is in not realizing that the air that the propeller acts upon is
unchanged regardless of the speed of the conveyor belt. Therefore, the
propeller will be able to pull the airframe forward on the conveyor
regardless of how fast the conveyor moves, because it is putting a force on
the airframe relative to the air, not relative to the conveyor belt.

The same thing would happen if you attached a rope to the nose of the
airplane and stood on the ground ahead of the conveyor so that you were not
standing on the moving belt. Start the conveyor and the airplane stands
still while the wheels spin with the conveyor belt. Now pull on the rope
and you can move the airplane forward even though the conveyor is moving
backwards and the wheels are spinning like crazy.

The mistake I made in comparing it to a seaplane on a river is that the
floats are attached to the airframe - where they go, the plane goes. No so
with wheels. Wheel rotational speed has nothing to do with how fast the
airframe moves in this scenario.

BDS

AES wrote:
If you tie a 100 foot rope to the tail of an airplane (or some other
part of the airframe), attach it to a good strong post, and run the
propellor up to whatever rpm is available, is anyone claiming the
airplane can then lift up say a feet off the ground?

(Assuming the tail doesn't tear off)

(and, a conveyor belt under the airplane is optional)

That completely changes the situation. The plane couldn't take off with a
regular runway if you secured it to a fixed post.

--

Darrell R. Schmidt
B-58 Hustler History: http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/
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