Can a Plane on a Treadmill Take Off?

"Gary Drescher" wrote:

"Don Tuite" wrote in message
.. .
but what
is the point of the original question in that case? Is it just to
trap a sloppy reader into thinking it's all about a crackpot VTOL
methodology?

I think the more interesting point is to notice the implications of not
transmitting force through the wheels. Even people who know that planes and
cars differ in that way may fail (at least at first) to draw the appropriate
conclusion about what happens to the treadmill plane when it applies takeoff
power.

Totally irrelevant. The answer is the same for a glider being towed to
take-off by a ground vehicle (except that you would want to change the
rear end or wheel size of the vehicle to cut the final drive ratio in
half, so that it could attain the doubled wheel speed necessary to
attain the needed forward speed.)

--Gary


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Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

"alexy" wrote in message
...
"Gary Drescher" wrote:
I think the more interesting point is to notice the implications of not
transmitting force through the wheels. Even people who know that planes
and
cars differ in that way may fail (at least at first) to draw the
appropriate
conclusion about what happens to the treadmill plane when it applies
takeoff
power.

Totally irrelevant. The answer is the same for a glider being towed to
take-off by a ground vehicle (except that you would want to change the
rear end or wheel size of the vehicle to cut the final drive ratio in
half, so that it could attain the doubled wheel speed necessary to
attain the needed forward speed.)

I don't think we're in disagreement. My point is just that (even assuming
frictionless wheels) you have to make some changes (such as the ones you
proposed) to a typical ground vehicle to imagine it running normally at
twice its usual speed (even if the relative wind is merely at the usual
speed). The airplane, in contrast, just takes off normally from the
treadmill without needing to be modified.

--Gary

Alex wrote:
Totally irrelevant. The answer is the same for a glider being towed to
take-off by a ground vehicle (except that you would want to change the
rear end or wheel size of the vehicle to cut the final drive ratio in
half, so that it could attain the doubled wheel speed necessary to
attain the needed forward speed.)

Just as the propellor on a plane is independent of the treadmill, the
tow car in your scenario must also be independent of the treadmill, ie.
running along side on solid ground while the glider is on the
treadmill. Co-Peach? (That's my Italian LOL)

The Monk

We don't have enough information. What color is the airplane? What
ratings does the pilot have? How many postings will this thread have
before it dies?

"Flyingmonk" wrote:

Alex wrote:
Totally irrelevant. The answer is the same for a glider being towed to
take-off by a ground vehicle (except that you would want to change the
rear end or wheel size of the vehicle to cut the final drive ratio in
half, so that it could attain the doubled wheel speed necessary to
attain the needed forward speed.)

Just as the propellor on a plane is independent of the treadmill, the
tow car in your scenario must also be independent of the treadmill, ie.
running along side on solid ground while the glider is on the
treadmill. Co-Peach? (That's my Italian LOL)

The Monk

That's a possibility, but I was assuming a tow car ONE the conveyor.
So even with the drive wheels on the conveyor, it can still take off.
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