Oh those CERTIFIED plane engines !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Morgans wrote:

Some manufacturers, at certain times in their lifespan, are less comfortable
with cutting design strength margins too closely. GM is more likely to
build hell for stout, than are many of the imports, IMHO.

There's a little difference. When the engine breaks in your car, you
can pull off the road and call a tow truck.

"Cal Vanize" wrote in message
...
Morgans wrote:

Some manufacturers, at certain times in their lifespan, are less
comfortable
with cutting design strength margins too closely. GM is more likely to
build hell for stout, than are many of the imports, IMHO.

There's a little difference. When the engine breaks in your car, you
can pull off the road and call a tow truck.


True ... but ...
Engines in cars rarely break. Possibly as rarely as _real_ airplane
engines. However, I have seen a broker crank in a 40 HP Volkswagen, which
my brother and I bought. We rebuilt another engine and installed it with no
further problems. I also used to know a truck mechanic who saw the
occasional broken crank; usually, or perhaps always, after seeing a failed
torsional harmonic dampened--and trying without success to convince the
owner to replace it.

I leave it to the reader to make the connection; as I have beaten that dead
horse far too much, and not only on this NG.

Peter Dohm wrote:
True ... but ...
Engines in cars rarely break. Possibly as rarely as _real_ airplane
engines. However, I have seen a broker crank in a 40 HP Volkswagen, which
my brother and I bought. We rebuilt another engine and installed it with no
further problems. I also used to know a truck mechanic who saw the
occasional broken crank; usually, or perhaps always, after seeing a failed
torsional harmonic dampened--and trying without success to convince the
owner to replace it.

I leave it to the reader to make the connection; as I have beaten that dead
horse far too much, and not only on this NG.

And the failed cranks in these cases resulted in the car being pulled
off to the side of the road.

I've had a thrown rod in a VW, a broken distributor in a Corvair and a
jumped timing chain in a Ford. In all cases the result was getting towed.

Maybe aircraft engines are better built. In my 900+ hours I haven't had
any problems in the air, but I have flown planes that have had failures
in their history. Makes my wonder how long it'll be before my hand is
dealt.

"Cal Vanize" wrote

I've had a thrown rod in a VW,

What can you say about that one. VW (if it was a beetle) engines were over
stressed, even in a car, IMHO, and I would not trust one further than I
could throw it. I owned one, too.

a broken distributor in a Corvair

I don't know what to say about that one. Would more complete inspection (as
a airplane engine would get) have caught it? I can't comment further,
without knowing more about the type of failure.

jumped timing chain in a Ford.

How many K miles? Timing chains are a maintainance item. They (and
sprockets) wear out, and need to be replaced. Almost always, they fail at
well over 100 K miles.

In all cases the result was getting towed.

I wonder how many hours that comes up to, in driving hours, and more
importantly, how many hours toral, the failed units had on them. My guuess
is that the total would make your 900 flying hours look like a tiny
fraction.
--
Jim in NC

Oh, this looks like fun!

Morgans wrote:
"Cal Vanize" wrote


I've had a thrown rod in a VW,


What can you say about that one. VW (if it was a beetle) engines were over
stressed, even in a car, IMHO, and I would not trust one further than I
could throw it. I owned one, too.

cast cranks break.
even in cars.

a broken distributor in a Corvair

I don't know what to say about that one. Would more complete inspection (as
a airplane engine would get) have caught it? I can't comment further,
without knowing more about the type of failure.

I busted a distributor drive in an old '65 ford van.

the "cause" was a rusty gas tank that kept clogging the fuel filter.
made the poor beast chug so hard at times that it finally broke the drive.



jumped timing chain in a Ford.


busted a timing belt in my little bronze Les Nesman K-car.
was running real smooth, then stopped.
about 88,000 miles

How many K miles? Timing chains are a maintainance item. They (and
sprockets) wear out, and need to be replaced. Almost always, they fail at
well over 100 K miles.


In all cases the result was getting towed.


"San Antonio Center, this is experimental triple nickel,
20 miles west at 5000 feet.
Um, we seem to have a little situation here.
Looks like we broke a timing belt.
Can you contact AOPA and have them send out a tow plane?
QUICKLY!?!?"



I wonder how many hours that comes up to, in driving hours, and more
importantly, how many hours toral, the failed units had on them. My guuess
is that the total would make your 900 flying hours look like a tiny
fraction.


100,000 miles at 50 miles per hour average should be right near 2000 hours.

100 hours at the same average 50 mile per hour is a paltry 5000 miles.

Can you imagine tearing into a running automobile engine that often.
Just to see if it was ok?

Morgans wrote:

"Cal Vanize" wrote


I've had a thrown rod in a VW,


What can you say about that one. VW (if it was a beetle) engines were over
stressed, even in a car, IMHO, and I would not trust one further than I
could throw it. I owned one, too.

In our family history, we blew out jugs, head gaskets, two thrown rods.
Not a great record.



a broken distributor in a Corvair

I don't know what to say about that one. Would more complete inspection (as
a airplane engine would get) have caught it? I can't comment further,
without knowing more about the type of failure.

Actually a broken distributor shaft. Car had a few miles on it, but
hardly high mileage.



jumped timing chain in a Ford.


How many K miles? Timing chains are a maintainance item. They (and
sprockets) wear out, and need to be replaced. Almost always, they fail at
well over 100 K miles.


Fairly low miles. Around 15k, IIRC. Just outside of warranty in its day.



In all cases the result was getting towed.


I wonder how many hours that comes up to, in driving hours, and more
importantly, how many hours toral, the failed units had on them. My guuess
is that the total would make your 900 flying hours look like a tiny
fraction.

At avg. of 50 mph (easy highway miles) that would be 45,000 miles in
cars. At that mileage, the Ford had its timing chain jump and both of
hte VW engines that threw rods failed within that mileage.

Corvair had more miles, in the 70k range, but it had other problems that
would have disqualified is as reliable transportation.

On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 20:47:21 -0600, Cal Vanize
wrote:



Peter Dohm wrote:
True ... but ...
Engines in cars rarely break. Possibly as rarely as _real_ airplane
engines. However, I have seen a broker crank in a 40 HP Volkswagen, which
my brother and I bought. We rebuilt another engine and installed it with no
further problems. I also used to know a truck mechanic who saw the
occasional broken crank; usually, or perhaps always, after seeing a failed
torsional harmonic dampened--and trying without success to convince the
owner to replace it.

I leave it to the reader to make the connection; as I have beaten that dead
horse far too much, and not only on this NG.

And the failed cranks in these cases resulted in the car being pulled
off to the side of the road.

I've had a thrown rod in a VW, a broken distributor in a Corvair and a
jumped timing chain in a Ford. In all cases the result was getting towed.

Failed distributor of what replaces it in a 93 Transam after roughly
20,000 miles. (Over $800) and it had to be towed.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Maybe aircraft engines are better built. In my 900+ hours I haven't had
any problems in the air, but I have flown planes that have had failures
in their history. Makes my wonder how long it'll be before my hand is
dealt.

Maybe aircraft engines are better built. In my 900+ hours I haven't had
any problems in the air, but I have flown planes that have had failures
in their history. Makes my wonder how long it'll be before my hand is
dealt.

Well you may fly another 35 years and thousands of hours and never have a
problem. The last number I heard is that the average is somewhere are
35,000 hours for every engine failure. (and Im not talking about the running
out of gas, fuel on an empty tank type. Im talking something seriously
broken internally now) Most careers are not close to that. You also might
have one your next flight grin. My career has more less come to an end with
about 2000 hours total time. Only one instrument on the panel never failed
me. I used to be called the jink. If it would break, it would with me in
the airplane. Yet the only serious engine problem I ever had was like most
of them. It wasn't a total but a partial power loss, and trust me a 150 on
2 cylinders doesn't run very well. It did keep me in the air though and got
me to an airport. The trick is to be ready for it anyway.

"Cal Vanize" wrote in message
Maybe aircraft engines are better built. In my 900+ hours I haven't had
any problems in the air, but I have flown planes that have had failures
in their history. Makes my wonder how long it'll be before my hand is
dealt.

If it's any consolation, I've had 10 failures of certified aircraft engines.
There have been numerous partial failures and pre-cautionary shutdowns also.

D.

"Cal Vanize" wrote

There's a little difference. When the engine breaks in your car, you
can pull off the road and call a tow truck.

Humm, I don't know a single person that has had a broken crank, in his car.
Can you say the same about your friend's airplanes?

When an auto engined airplane powerplant fails, it is almost always not the
engine, but what has been bolted to it. It seems like airplane engines are
always blowing jugs off, sticking valves, and breaking rods and cranks.
They are not confidence inspiring, to me.

True, auto engines in airplanes have a way to go, but if someone were to put
the effort into making a standard package, and perfecting it, they would
really go far. Some are getting really close.
--
Jim in NC