How to get IFR Clearance enroute?

Maximizing the system is filing IFR for me. YMMV. But outside of
departures from the NY and DC Class B areas, filing is the way to optimize
your use of the system. Don't always have to open it, don't have to stay on
it. But with GPS and good ATC skills, I usually can optimize my flight
paths and altitudes better in the system than out of it.

My experience is somewhat limited and geo specific however.

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
) wrote:

If you don't have a pretty good idea of where you are likely to
encounter
IMC en route, you haven't done a very good job of flight planning.

I disagree. Are you claiming that good flight planning will always
provide
an accurate picture of future weather, especially for a trip that covers a
large number of hours and miles?

IMO, experienced weather forecasters sometimes get it wrong. When they
do,
then there are going to be times when I, as the pilot who is planning the
flight with their products, will get it wrong.

Sure, one can simply cover all bases and always file IFR, but knowing how
to maximize the system seems to me to be the theme of this thread.

--
Peter

"Peter R." wrote:

) wrote:

If you don't have a pretty good idea of where you are likely to encounter
IMC en route, you haven't done a very good job of flight planning.

I disagree. Are you claiming that good flight planning will always provide
an accurate picture of future weather, especially for a trip that covers a
large number of hours and miles?

I said "pretty good idea of where (the IMC is likely to be). A composite
flight plan can deal with that approximation quite nicely, yet not create the
issues that an air file can cause.



IMO, experienced weather forecasters sometimes get it wrong. When they do,
then there are going to be times when I, as the pilot who is planning the
flight with their products, will get it wrong.

Of course, but not to the extent of not having a pretty good idea.



Sure, one can simply cover all bases and always file IFR, but knowing how
to maximize the system seems to me to be the theme of this thread.


"Always filing IFR" is quite different than filing a composite flight plan.
And, if the weather is "super good," then a flight of such length should
"always" be on a VFR flight plan if a composite or IFR flight plan is not
necessary.

wrote in :

If you don't have a pretty good idea of where you are likely to encounter
IMC en route, you haven't done a very good job of flight planning. If you
have, then a composite flight plan works quite well.

This isn't always the case by any means. I've had forecasts of good VFR and
found 100/.25 at my destination. I've been flying in good VFR and had the
sky fall on me. Weather forecasting is a guess at best, and the weather
guessers occasionally guess wrong. It is obviously good practice to get a
thorough weather briefing and have a good idea of what the patterns are and
what is likely to occur where, but Mother Nature doesn't always play nicely,
and sometimes presents us with unpleasant surprises. I can't begin to count
the number of surprises I've had in 36 years of flying.

--
Regards,

Stan

wrote in message ...

If you don't have a pretty good idea of where you are likely to encounter
IMC en route, you haven't done a very good job of flight planning.

Hahahaha HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Ever hear the phrase "if you don't like the weather...wait a minute?"

Seriously though, Frank, I think you might want to consider where this
attitude might lead you astray.

Are you intending to imply "if you have done a really good job of flight
planning, then you HAVE a pretty good idea of where you are likely to
encounter IMC enroute"?

Might that make you feel like you don't need to stay on top of the
wx with Hiwas, CBAV, Flight Watch etc?

IMHO, that's one of the big "gotchas" for an IFR GA pilot. It's
all too easy to fly along over a nice little layer, with a few fleecy
clouds above and around, beautiful blue sky and brilliant sunshine,
and have no clue at all that the wx is deteriorating below ILS minimums
down below (and gosh, that excellent preflight wx briefing said there'd
be 1500-2000 ft ceilings).

Cheers,
Sydney

(Snowbird) wrote:
IMHO, that's one of the big "gotchas" for an IFR GA pilot. It's
all too easy to fly along over a nice little layer, with a few fleecy
clouds above and around, beautiful blue sky and brilliant sunshine,
and have no clue at all that the wx is deteriorating below ILS minimums
down below (and gosh, that excellent preflight wx briefing said there'd
be 1500-2000 ft ceilings).

That's why I always call Flight Watch once I'm up in the air to see how
things are going at my destination. If everything is as expected, I can
relax and enjoy the flight. If things have unexpectedly gone south,
I've still got plenty of time to make a new plan (brief an approach,
divert, whatever).

Roy Smith wrote in message ...
(Snowbird) wrote:
IMHO, that's one of the big "gotchas" for an IFR GA pilot. It's
all too easy to fly along over a nice little layer, with a few fleecy
clouds above and around, beautiful blue sky and brilliant sunshine,
and have no clue at all that the wx is deteriorating below ILS minimums
down below (and gosh, that excellent preflight wx briefing said there'd
be 1500-2000 ft ceilings).

That's why I always call Flight Watch once I'm up in the air to see how
things are going at my destination. If everything is as expected, I can
relax and enjoy the flight. If things have unexpectedly gone south,
I've still got plenty of time to make a new plan (brief an approach,
divert, whatever).

Yes, exactly. And I imagine if it's a fairly long flight, you may
call Flight Watch more than once and maybe get some NEXRAD or metars
with CBAV (that's what we do, anyway, given the trace of a clue that
things aren't as predicted).

My point was to the chap who seemed to imply, if you have to file
enroute, you didn't brief properly preflight...t'aint true. Mommy
Nature doesn't seem to read the TAFs.

Best,
Sydney

Snowbird wrote:


My point was to the chap who seemed to imply, if you have to file
enroute, you didn't brief properly preflight...t'aint true. Mommy
Nature doesn't seem to read the TAFs.


Nope, the chap was giving a setup for how to best guestimate where to have a composite flight plan
convert from VFR to IFR.

Snowbird wrote:

wrote in message ...

If you don't have a pretty good idea of where you are likely to encounter
IMC en route, you haven't done a very good job of flight planning.

Hahahaha HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Ever hear the phrase "if you don't like the weather...wait a minute?"

Seriously though, Frank, I think you might want to consider where this
attitude might lead you astray.

Well, in 40 years of air carrier and G/A flying, and some 20,000 hours, it's
worked so far.



Are you intending to imply "if you have done a really good job of flight
planning, then you HAVE a pretty good idea of where you are likely to
encounter IMC enroute"?

No, I am not intending to imply that, nor did I suggest that. I was setting
forth a parameter for where to split a composite flight plan from VFR to IFR.
With that plan in place, I can move up the change to IFR if necessary.

My personal habit has to file IFR for the entire flight, if there is any doubt
at all. But, the thread was about air file, then air file vs. composite flight
plans. Keep your eye on the ball Snowy. ;-)



Might that make you feel like you don't need to stay on top of the
wx with Hiwas, CBAV, Flight Watch etc?

Talk about leaping to conclusions!



IMHO, that's one of the big "gotchas" for an IFR GA pilot. It's
all too easy to fly along over a nice little layer, with a few fleecy
clouds above and around, beautiful blue sky and brilliant sunshine,
and have no clue at all that the wx is deteriorating below ILS minimums
down below (and gosh, that excellent preflight wx briefing said there'd
be 1500-2000 ft ceilings).

Again, Snowy, the context was air file and composite flight plans; not
incompetence.

Thanks to EVERYONE for such great suggestions!

You provided me some new ideas, and some that were just plain common
sense, I must admit.

I, of course, know that I can simply FILE IFR from the get-go and just
not activate it until I need it. However NJ to FL is a 9-hour flight
in a Cessna 172 plus 2 stops totalling 10 to 12 hours. I don't
remember how long the IFR plan stays active in the system (3 hours?)
before it's dropped. I guess this procedure makes me file every time
I make a fuel/potty stop.

I like the COMPOSITE flight plan idea. I had sorta forgotten about
it. I need to read more about it. Is this easy to
implement/activate?

Thanks to SNOWBIRD (Sydney) for such great detail and your anecdotes.

Yes - I should have originally stated that if VFR it would be with
Flight Following. That's too long of a flight without help of some
kind - especially these days (TFR's etc.)

My eventual goal is to the Bahamas. I may start a new thread for some
tips.

Thanks again!

Stimbo
Medford, NJ

Stimbo wrote:

I, of course, know that I can simply FILE IFR from the get-go and just
not activate it until I need it. However NJ to FL is a 9-hour flight
in a Cessna 172 plus 2 stops totalling 10 to 12 hours. I don't
remember how long the IFR plan stays active in the system (3 hours?)
before it's dropped. I guess this procedure makes me file every time
I make a fuel/potty stop.

Do you mean that during the fuel/potty stop you need to file a flight plan? For
a multi-leg trip, I file all the plans, one for each leg, before I leave home.

I like the COMPOSITE flight plan idea. I had sorta forgotten about
it. I need to read more about it. Is this easy to
implement/activate?

I know some people like composite flight plans. I don't. I say if you want two
flight plans, just file two flight plans, one VFR for the VFR part of the route
and one IFR for the IFR part of the route. Less confusing for everyone, IMO.


Thanks to SNOWBIRD (Sydney) for such great detail and your anecdotes.

Yeah, isn't she cool?

Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

Dave