Would this plane have flown?

Robert M. Gary wrote:
http://www.thegaryhouse.com/aircraftdamage/

I was down in a remote area of Mexico this last weekend and a truck
backed into my aileron. I was lucky that the driver had a sat phone and
I was able to call an A&P to come down to Mexico and swap it for me.
However, all the local pilots, and the A&P who came down seemed to
think it would have flown ok as was. From a simply academic point of
view I"m curious what you guys think.

Nowadays I'd wait for repairs but a neighbour spent 5 years driving
various two and four engined bombers over Occupied Europe and had a
series of photos of just how little you -really- need in the way of
contol surfaces

"george" wrote

Nowadays I'd wait for repairs but a neighbour spent 5 years driving
various two and four engined bombers over Occupied Europe and had a
series of photos of just how little you -really- need in the way of
contol surfaces

THEY had no choice, but to fly back home, while they were hit over enemy
territory. This fella did have a choice.

My take on it? He got lucky, and I'm glad he did.

I would say the chance of having a problem is low, less than 10%, most
likely. That means if 10 guys got hit like he did, one would not make it
home. Put in those terms, would you want to be that 1 out of 10? Even if
it was 1 out of 100, it would be too high, when there is a choice.

If it were me, I would have done as detailed inspection (removing access
covers, whatever) as possible. Perhaps, I even would have disconnected that
side at the yoke, or first belcrank, and bolted that aileron stationary.
Flutter scares the crap out of me.

Whatever, I would not have made any decision's based on what the insurance
company said.
--
Jim in NC

I don't think you would want to EVER disconnect a control surface. Do
others know more about this?

I don't think you EVER want to disconnect a control surface or even a
trim tab. Any Aero engrs out there want to comment?

On 2006-03-23, Morgans wrote:
Flutter scares the crap out of me.

I would strongly doubt (based on what I know) that there was even the
remotest chance of flutter. From what I understand, flutter would
require the flexing of the wing structure in such a way to cause the
whole thing to oscillate. This happens with experimental airframes (or
used to happen) because the whole surface or wing would warp under
aerodynamic loads in such a way that you'd get the oscillation. A dent
in a Mooney aileron isn't going to cause that.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

In article ,
says...
On 2006-03-23, Morgans wrote:
Flutter scares the crap out of me.

I would strongly doubt (based on what I know) that there was even the
remotest chance of flutter. From what I understand, flutter would
require the flexing of the wing structure in such a way to cause the
whole thing to oscillate. This happens with experimental airframes (or
used to happen) because the whole surface or wing would warp under
aerodynamic loads in such a way that you'd get the oscillation. A dent
in a Mooney aileron isn't going to cause that.

Yes it could - seen it for myself first hand - significant further
deteriotion occurred in-flight as a result of the flutter (that the
pilot could feel) - the pilot was very relieved to be on the ground
again - and won't be repeating the experience (why he didn't choose to
land at one of the several alternatives, we'll never know).

--
Duncan

In article .com,
says...
http://www.thegaryhouse.com/aircraftdamage/

I was down in a remote area of Mexico this last weekend and a truck
backed into my aileron. I was lucky that the driver had a sat phone and
I was able to call an A&P to come down to Mexico and swap it for me.
However, all the local pilots, and the A&P who came down seemed to
think it would have flown ok as was. From a simply academic point of
view I"m curious what you guys think.

There's no way I'd fly it. I saw a similarly damaged plane fly back to
it's homefield (against the advice from many) - and when it got back -
it was a *lot* worse. Considerably fluttering/vibration was apparent -
according to the pilot - in flight.

But he made it. He got quite a shock when he saw the additional damage
the fluttering had caused (dunno why he didn't put it down in one of the
many alternatives on the way).

--
Duncan

On 2006-03-22, Robert M. Gary wrote:
http://www.thegaryhouse.com/aircraftdamage/

I was down in a remote area of Mexico this last weekend and a truck
backed into my aileron.

One thing to watch out for on seemingly minor damage near the outboard
edges of wings is a bent spar. Think of how much torque on the inboard
part of the wing that an impact to even make a small dent would make.
Needless to say, kinked spars are vastly weaker than unkinked spars.

Our club had a Cessna 170 - someone put the wingtip into a hangar at
taxi speed making a small dent in it. It also made a small kink in the
aft spar even though it was at low speed and seemingly only cosmetic
damage - the spar had to be repaired before the aircraft was airworthy
again.

I believe Highflyer has a story about hitting a wingtip of a Taylorcraft
on a pole at taxi speed - the damage appeared merely cosmetic but
the aft spar fractured in flight, which could have quite easily been fatal.
The torque from hitting the wingtip on the pole caused a compression
fracture in the wooden spar.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

One thing to watch out for on seemingly minor damage near the outboard
edges of wings is a bent spar. Think of how much torque on the inboard
part of the wing that an impact to even make a small dent would make.
Needless to say, kinked spars are vastly weaker than unkinked spars.

For sure. At OSH '04, our tent -- with 1 inch aluminum poles -- blew over
onto the wing of Atlas, our '74 Piper Pathfinder.

Those very stout tent poles bent like pipe cleaners over the trailing edge
of our right aileron like butter -- with NO damage to the aileron.

If a one-inch-thick pole can break across the trailing edge of an aileron
WITHOUT inflicting damage, just imagine the impact it took to inflict that
kind of damage to your aileron. I'd check the wing spar and attach points
very carefully.

(Incidentally, our '75 Warrior had very similar hangar rash on the aileron
when we bought the plane in '98. Our A&P signed it off at the pre-buy
inspection, and we flew it that way for several months, until we could
afford to have it rebuilt. Never had a problem...)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:W9mUf.840188$x96.700068@attbi_s72...
For sure. At OSH '04, our tent -- with 1 inch aluminum poles -- blew
over onto the wing of Atlas, our '74 Piper Pathfinder.

Those very stout tent poles [...]

I thought you said they were "1 inch aluminum poles".

Not to discount your point about the potential of harm to the interior wing
structure (which is valid IMHO), but I'll bet you could take one of those 1
inch aluminum poles and easily bend it over your knee.

Pete