Flight to Las Vegas Pirep -- Part I

Absolutely.
The turbulence, properly defined as "light", (never full defection of the
controls, altitude excursions of 200 ft or less), was caused by a sinking
jetstream causing high winds over the surface while flying towards rising
terrain. Headed west from Hutchinson, KS, we climbed from 8,000 to 10,000
searching for a better ride. 10,000 was the best altitude according to the
winds aloft forecast and we even tried 12,000 with no better results. Lower
alts that were still above the MEA were available, however surface winds
were kicking up significant dust storms below that I really didn't want to
fly through. Our impression was that turbulence would have been worse lower.
The guys up above were making non stop radio calls to Center in planes of
every description looking for a smoother altitude, no one ever found a
smooth ride.

The decision making process at Hutchinson was deceptively easy. Everybody
felt better, it was VFR, surface winds were lighter than forecast. Get
there itis wasn't a factor, because we had no where to get to. We didn't
have reservations in Las Vegas until the following night, we could have
easily stayed in Hutchinson if we'd had known what was ahead. Current
METARs led us to believe that the surface winds along our route may also
continue to be lighter than forecast, but they were not, they were higher
than forecast as we learned as we approached Liberal, KS where a regional
jet was shooting an ILS35 circle to land 21 due to blowing dust into a 45G51
knot wind. We began looking for a more suitable airport with runways more
aligned with the wind and hopefully lower surface winds than Liberal was
experiencing. Best port in the storm turned out to be Dalhart, TX. Beyond
Dalhart is Tucumcari (sp?) and not much else. I was not going to push our
fuel constraints passed Dalhart. We had an alternative route planned that
would take us further south towards Tucson and thus avoid some of the high
winds, however that route required a fuel stop in Liberal, KS, Dalhart, TX,
or Borger, TX. All airports have 17/35 & 3/21. Dalhart turned out to be
the best combination of lowest wind and runway length. Winds were said to
be 230@38G46, but in actuality they were more like from 260.

Without a doubt we could have stayed in Hutchinson, KS. With everyone
feeling better, the conditions at Hutchinson being better than forecast, and
the forecast showing acceptable VFR conditions, we chose to continue.

Jim

"john smith" wrote in message
...
In article qIzUf.879212$xm3.440468@attbi_s21,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

We would do that flight again today, under the identical conditions.
Mary
and I have analyzed the flight from every angle, and at every step of
the
way Jim's flight planning and decision-making process was sound. At no
point was there an obvious "no-go" condition that we missed, nor was
there
any pressure to actually get anywhere in particular that day -- a fact I
think I made clear. "Get-there-itis" was NOT a factor at all.

Not having looked at the winds aloft for your trip, I would be courious
to know what altitude was selected and why? Was an altitude change
condsidered to find smoother air?

"Jim Burns" wrote in message ...

snip
as we approached Liberal, KS where a regional
jet was shooting an ILS35 circle to land 21 due to blowing dust into a 45G51
knot wind. We began looking for a more suitable airport with runways more
aligned with the wind and hopefully lower surface winds than Liberal was
experiencing. Best port in the storm turned out to be Dalhart, TX. Beyond
Dalhart is Tucumcari (sp?) and not much else. I was not going to push our
fuel constraints passed Dalhart. We had an alternative route planned that
would take us further south towards Tucson and thus avoid some of the high
winds, however that route required a fuel stop in Liberal, KS, Dalhart, TX,
or Borger, TX. All airports have 17/35 & 3/21. Dalhart turned out to be
the best combination of lowest wind and runway length. Winds were said to
be 230@38G46, but in actuality they were more like from 260.

Without a doubt we could have stayed in Hutchinson, KS. With everyone
feeling better, the conditions at Hutchinson being better than forecast, and
the forecast showing acceptable VFR conditions, we chose to continue.

Jim

Jim,

What day did you and Jay come through here? You flew within 90 miles of my home base, KWWR if you were at
Liberal. I think I was in Houston visiting relatives but if you'd have let me know I would have made sure you guys
were taken care of and had a place to stay if you'd have diverted here. WWR has a 5/23 runway which would have been
better for winds out of 260 & 17/35 is 100 ft wide.

Listen you guys, this ain't a butt chewing but I want you to know that the conditions you experienced are not at
all uncommon in this area. The area around Gage VOR has a reputation as the beginning of tornado alley. Look at
this: http://www.srh.noaa.gov/oun/storms/19470409/

Some really huge thunderstorms will begin rolling through here within the next few weeks if the drought breaks.
The distinction with our winds is often not necessarily their strength but also "the intense sharpness and high
frequency of the gusts". I've seen gust fronts with straight line winds that exceeded 100 mph and they moved cars in
the parking lots. When we say winds are 30 gusting to 45 we mean they can change that much in just a second or two
and then be right back where they were. And they can keep it up for hours or days on end. Just please be careful in
this neck of the woods! The cloud pictures you guys posted on Jay's site look all too familiar.

Engage flame suit mode.

As an aside, and hopefully so others will be a little more careful than myself... about a month ago the wife and
I were on a return flight from visiting our daughter at college. There was an oil drilling rig on fire due to a well
blowout about 30 miles north of the airport. We flew up there, avoided a TFR, and took a look. It was after dark
and so it made for a spectacular sight. Shades of Red Adair and all! When I turned for home, the turbulence was
quickly increasing and I had to hold a very high angle crab to maintain runway heading for a long straight in
approach. The AWOS was spewing reports similar to those you encountered at Dalhart. I chose runway 17 due to its
width. The wind was from 200. The ailerons were nearly going stop to stop and I reached over, snugged up the wife's
seat belt, explained the situation and told her to expect a go around. The darkness made for a real challenge
gauging wind drift and flare height while battling for control. The landing light beam was swinging wildly from
clear past the right runway edge one second to off the other side the next. I had just started feeding throttle in
for the go around when the gusts died down to about 30 knots and I was able to touch down with the rudder to the
stops and chop the throttle. I intentionally was trying for the upwind edge of the runway and my plan worked. We
touched down semi straight and nearly on the centerline. In my haste to get the nose wheel planted and get firm
control before the rudder lost effectiveness, I let the nose wheel down early. The plan suddenly wasn't quite as
brilliant. With the nose wheel cocked with the rudder a la' Cherokee, we veered back and forth several times before
I had her tracking straight down the runway. It was the most challenging landing I've ever made in my short 870
hours of piloting. I am still wondering if I did the right thing. I'm not sure if I should be proud of my piloting
skills or ashamed of even trying, it was that close... and I fly here in these winds all the time. The airplane
suffered no damage but I know I was pushing both its and my own capabilities and my wife was a passenger.

p.s. Within a few days of your passing through, about 700,000 acres of the Texas panhandle went up in flames
near your route due to those winds and tinderbox drought conditions. Firefighters from my hometown were among many
on the scene.

Joe Schneider
N8437R



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Joe, thanks for posting.
Local information such as yours is something we have all lost with the
FSS consolidations over the years.

I am still wondering if I did the right thing. I'm not sure if I should be proud of my piloting
skills or ashamed of even trying, it was that close... and I fly here in these winds all the time. The airplane
suffered no damage but I know I was pushing both its and my own capabilities and my wife was a passenger.

Great post, Joe. I suffered a landing like that -- in daylight,
thankfully -- in Rockford, IL ten years ago. Mary STILL gives me crap
about it! :-)

p.s. Within a few days of your passing through, about 700,000 acres of the Texas panhandle went up in flames
near your route due to those winds and tinderbox drought conditions. Firefighters from my hometown were among many
on the scene.

Actually, those fires were already ablaze as we flew over, and
dust/sand storms were making the whole state look more like Iraq than
the US.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

So after your 1st go around, why didn't you divert to an airport with less
severe crosswinds?

Mike Schumann

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:qIzUf.879212$xm3.440468@attbi_s21...
I would think that when you are flying IFR and you are worried that the
IFR rated pilot is about to be incapacitated and the co-pilot is VFR
only, it's time to call it a day. Breaking the landing gear is just
confirmation that this flight should have been cancelled earlier.

After Hutchinson, we were flying IFR in VFR conditions. We had a $20K,
altitude holding, S-tec autopilot, and, as a 1000+ hour pilot, I've been
very close to taking my instrument check-ride. I'm confident that, had
the pilot keeled over, I would have been able to land the Aztec. I was
keeping a close eye on conditions -- as should any co-pilot -- but that
turned out to be unnecessary -- Jim never skipped a beat.

There was no bad judgment here, and to imply otherwise is a misreading of
the situation. Had Jim felt like he was in any danger of becoming
incapacitated, we would not have departed Hutchinson. There were three
pilots on that airplane, and we all got back in that plane at Hutchinson
without a second thought. If any of us had felt threatened or endangered,
we would have spoken up.

Should we have spent the night in HUT? With 20/20 hindsight, sure -- but
for comfort reasons, not aviation safety reasons. Conditions were severe
clear VFR, and we knew we could stop at any of half a dozen airports along
the way -- but none of us knew that the turbulence would be unrelenting.
The fact that the wind came up higher than predicted was just bad luck,
and Jim's skill salvaged what might have been a far worse situation.

We would do that flight again today, under the identical conditions. Mary
and I have analyzed the flight from every angle, and at every step of the
way Jim's flight planning and decision-making process was sound. At no
point was there an obvious "no-go" condition that we missed, nor was there
any pressure to actually get anywhere in particular that day -- a fact I
think I made clear. "Get-there-itis" was NOT a factor at all.

It was just an exciting flight, which is something that occasionally
happens if you actually use GA aircraft for long cross-country flights.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote:

My initial comment:

Don't take this personally but it has the sound of a narrative that
could have ended in multiple fatalities.

I suppose -- but you can say that about every flight.

Jim truly won the "Iron Man" award for this flight. Through it all he
never skipped a beat, never missed a radio call -- and got us down safely in
a friggin' "inland hurricane". His professionalism and skill in the face
of truly awful conditions got us through a bad situation safely, and Mary
and I would fly that trip -- with our kids -- with him again tomorrow.
--
Jay Honeck

Jay, I will add that it was not my intent to flame you. All I could
do with one reading is look at it from my perspective and note that I
would not have made that flight. Several reasons: Not instrument
rated (signed off for exam but have not taken it); I have no interest
in rough as heck IMC conditions or anything that approaches bad
convective activity; I hate severe turbulence; None of the above are
worth it for Las Vegas (been there once).

This morning I was to go to Carlsbad NM to go to the caves. Someone
asked why I was going on a beautiful day instead of when it was worse
weather. My reply: "Because I am a wuss."

Cancelled the trip due to a rough running engine but the flight should
have been the opposite of yours: Clear skies, no projected turbulence
and light forecasted winds at the destination. I still plan on
getting there and make a PIREP.posting on it but it will neither be as
"interesting" a flight nor as eloquent prose.

Ron Lee