Rotax engines- LSA's hope, or curse?

"Helen" wrote in message
...
Dave Stadt wrote:
American Champion is re-introducing the Champ with brand new O-200s. All
dolled up it looks to be $84K. It knock the socks off the plastic, god
awful ugly LSAs I have seen.

You sure about that? When I met the owner of the company a few years back
he was gung-ho on putting the Champ in production with a Jabaru. At the
time, his hold up was finding a prop that would match the engine and not
over speed. If he went with the O-200 I'm betting it was because of the
prop problem, not a concern with the Jabaru.

One advantage that the "the plastic, god awful ugly LSAs" do have over the
Champ is the insurance. Check out the article in this month's Sport Pilot
magazine about the problems insuring an LSA taildragger.

Helen

Trust me I saw it a couple of weeks ago. My guess is he realized they would
be easier to sell with the Continental. Can't see why a Champ would be any
more expensive to insure as an LSA than they are now. A new one would
obviously be more as the hull value is much more.

On 2006-04-11, Dave Stadt wrote:
Trust me I saw it a couple of weeks ago. My guess is he realized they would
be easier to sell with the Continental. Can't see why a Champ would be any
more expensive to insure as an LSA than they are now.

It's probably specifically to do with low-time tailwheel pilots more
than anything else. I suspect most (non-sport pilot) Champ owners have a
reasonable amount of tailwheel time since these planes are hardly ever
used as trainers now, more as personal aircraft for people who like the
Champ. A new LSA pilot buying a Champ is probably as expensive to insure
as a student tailwheel pilot - in an expensive hull.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

My local FBO has a J-3 cub that they wanted to rent out to light sport
pilots. They found it impossible to find insurance that permitted them to
do that. The only company they could find that would insure a tail dragger
for rental, required all pilots to have regular private licenses with
current medicals.

This FBO is now acquiring a ROTAX 912 powered Flight Design CTSW light sport
aircraft. I just got check out in this plane this week. It's absolutely
gorgeous. Being a tricycle gear, insurance is not an issue.

Mike Schumann

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
om...

"Helen" wrote in message
...
Dave Stadt wrote:
American Champion is re-introducing the Champ with brand new O-200s.
All dolled up it looks to be $84K. It knock the socks off the plastic,
god awful ugly LSAs I have seen.

You sure about that? When I met the owner of the company a few years
back he was gung-ho on putting the Champ in production with a Jabaru. At
the time, his hold up was finding a prop that would match the engine and
not over speed. If he went with the O-200 I'm betting it was because of
the prop problem, not a concern with the Jabaru.

One advantage that the "the plastic, god awful ugly LSAs" do have over
the Champ is the insurance. Check out the article in this month's Sport
Pilot magazine about the problems insuring an LSA taildragger.

Helen

Trust me I saw it a couple of weeks ago. My guess is he realized they
would be easier to sell with the Continental. Can't see why a Champ would
be any more expensive to insure as an LSA than they are now. A new one
would obviously be more as the hull value is much more.

From what I have read on this, there were a couple of things in play...

First, Continental came out with a "lightweight" O-200.

And by going with the O-200 American Champion could build it under the old
Champ type certificate, but by meeting the LSA restrictions, could also sell
it into the LSA market.




"Helen" wrote in message
...
Dave Stadt wrote:
American Champion is re-introducing the Champ with brand new O-200s.
All
dolled up it looks to be $84K. It knock the socks off the plastic, god
awful ugly LSAs I have seen.

You sure about that? When I met the owner of the company a few years
back he was gung-ho on putting the Champ in production with a Jabaru.
At the time, his hold up was finding a prop that would match the engine
and not over speed. If he went with the O-200 I'm betting it was
because of the prop problem, not a concern with the Jabaru.

One advantage that the "the plastic, god awful ugly LSAs" do have over
the Champ is the insurance. Check out the article in this month's Sport
Pilot magazine about the problems insuring an LSA taildragger.

Helen

"Morgans" wrote in message
...
I see that two LSA aircrafts that had already been certified, crashed on
their way to SnF, when their engines failed on takeoff. Pilots are badly
injured, but alive, thank goodness. At least the slow speed, low energy
philosophy of the LSA seems to be allowing people to survive bad incidents.

Am I the only one who thinks that Rotax still leaves a lot to be desired,
even their 4 strokes?

I still will not set foot inside an aircraft that is powered by one.
Until an alternate engine is available, LSA is dead on arrival, IMHO.

Jubaru? I don't know. There are more than a few bad reports on them,
too. O-200's are still a choice, as are C-85's, I suppose, but weight and
price makes them somewhat questionable.

I hate to be the pessimist, and I am not a troll, for those who know me
here, but what is a person to do? I had to get it off my chest.
--
Jim in NC

We have a lot of U/L and Light Sport eligible aircraft at my home airfield.
The guys with the 4 stroke Rotax engines never seem to have any problems. I
also have a couple of friends who fly Sonexes (?) with both 4 and 6 cylinder
Jabirus, and they don't seem to have any problems. The guys with the 2
strokes play glider pilot a lot. One fellow a couple of hangars down
probably has a half dozen off-airport landings due to engine problems with 2
stroke engines. I'd guess he has 2,000 hours behind 2 strokes.
Fortunately, there is a lot of farmland near my field which has really
helped keep the 2 stroke guys out of big trouble.

My take on the situation is that a Light Sport aircraft with a 4 stroke
Rotax or a Jabiru is a viable flying machine with X/C ability. The aircraft
with 2 stroke engines are a far different proposition.

KB

"Morgans" wrote in message
...
I see that two LSA aircrafts that had already been certified, crashed on
their way to SnF, when their engines failed on takeoff. Pilots are badly
injured, but alive, thank goodness. At least the slow speed, low energy
philosophy of the LSA seems to be allowing people to survive bad incidents.

Am I the only one who thinks that Rotax still leaves a lot to be desired,
even their 4 strokes?

I still will not set foot inside an aircraft that is powered by one.
Until an alternate engine is available, LSA is dead on arrival, IMHO.

Jubaru? I don't know. There are more than a few bad reports on them,
too. O-200's are still a choice, as are C-85's, I suppose, but weight and
price makes them somewhat questionable.

I hate to be the pessimist, and I am not a troll, for those who know me
here, but what is a person to do? I had to get it off my chest.
--
Jim in NC

No but I bet you would "set foot" inside an aircraft powered by a Lycomming
(broken crankshafts) or Continental (broken big end bolts)... These two
engines have killed more pilots than Rotax or Jabiru. I find it amusing
that some people just can't see the forest for the trees. We had two pilots
killed here in Australia in the past two weeks both flying Lycommings, one
failed after take off and the other on approach to land. Investigations are
continuing. Don't kid yourself, all engines fail for a variety of reasons.

Now, if your anti-LSA, why don't you just say so.

Bob.

"Bob O'Rilley" wrote in message
...

"Morgans" wrote in message
...
I see that two LSA aircrafts that had already been certified, crashed on
their way to SnF, when their engines failed on takeoff. Pilots are badly
injured, but alive, thank goodness. At least the slow speed, low energy
philosophy of the LSA seems to be allowing people to survive bad
incidents.

Am I the only one who thinks that Rotax still leaves a lot to be desired,
even their 4 strokes?

I still will not set foot inside an aircraft that is powered by one.
Until an alternate engine is available, LSA is dead on arrival, IMHO.

Jubaru? I don't know. There are more than a few bad reports on them,
too. O-200's are still a choice, as are C-85's, I suppose, but weight and
price makes them somewhat questionable.

I hate to be the pessimist, and I am not a troll, for those who know me
here, but what is a person to do? I had to get it off my chest.
--
Jim in NC

No but I bet you would "set foot" inside an aircraft powered by a
Lycomming (broken crankshafts) or Continental (broken big end bolts)...
These two engines have killed more pilots than Rotax or Jabiru. I find it
amusing that some people just can't see the forest for the trees.

Considering that Lycoming and Continental have BILLIONS (TRILLIONS ?? ) of
hours flying, it's not surprising that they've killed more pilots. What's
also amusing is people that can't correlate data but shoot their mouth off
anyway.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

When I was a full time CFI in 2001, my flight school had an early
Katana with the 80hp Rotax & CS prop. I took an interest in the plane
(nobody else did - it was a ramp queen) and flew it probably 15-20
hours. While that is hardly enough time to make a truly informed
opinion about the engine, I've heard from A&P types that the 4 strokes
hold up quite well, even with their funky combination air/liquid
cooling. At 5gph in cruise @ 115kt (Katana) it's cheap to run as well.
The TBO was raised from 1200 to 1500 in 2003, and even though that's
still low compared to the typical 2000TBO for most NA Contis & Lycs I'm
guessing overhaul costs are proportional.

wrote in message
oups.com...
When I was a full time CFI in 2001, my flight school had an early
Katana with the 80hp Rotax & CS prop. I took an interest in the plane
(nobody else did - it was a ramp queen) and flew it probably 15-20
hours. While that is hardly enough time to make a truly informed
opinion about the engine, I've heard from A&P types that the 4 strokes
hold up quite well, even with their funky combination air/liquid
cooling. At 5gph in cruise @ 115kt (Katana) it's cheap to run as well.
The TBO was raised from 1200 to 1500 in 2003, and even though that's
still low compared to the typical 2000TBO for most NA Contis & Lycs I'm
guessing overhaul costs are proportional.

Then why did Diamond dump the Rotax for Continentals?

Dave S wrote:

Then why did Diamond dump the Rotax for Continentals?

They initially offered both when the Conti was first available. The
Katana just needed more power. The higher cruise speed and much better
climb rate of the 125hp IO-240 Conti made a huge difference from what
I've read. Most Katanas are in school fleets so the higher TBO was
probably a factor in the engine swap IMO.