Scared of mid-airs

To the group.


My original posting has developed beyond intentions.

Let me be presise:

I am NOT terrified of having a mid air every time I fly.
I realise my original post is misleading in this regard.

I fly as much as I can, and I scan for traffic the best I can with the
techniques I've learnt, and picked up along the way.

However, from time to time, I think more about this than other times.

Much like the way one might think more about hitting another motor vehicle
going around a bend in 80 mph somewhere. Sure, you don't think of this all
the time, but occasionally after seeing reckless drivers out there, the
thought creeps in.

I just posted to get some opinions on the subject, and some raw statistics.

I'm sorry if my original post offends any pilots out there.

Be assured, I do not fly around being afraid, and I do not intend to in the
future either. It's just been a few times the past 2-3 years that I've
experienced the odd minute or two of nervousness enroute, but it doesn't
last.

Maybe it even makes my scan technique better!

And 3 times close encounters (not meaning near misses) is not much I believe
if you do any flying near any sort of congested airspace like I do.

Only once was I uncomfortably close to another plane, and that was in the
airspace around Amsterdam Schiphol.
Does the fact that this happened before I reached 230.000.567.983.574.000
hours total time holding an ATPL, being knighted by the FAA etc etc etc AND
being the best crop duster in the world make me a careless pilot?

I don't believe it does. Everyone has the right to his/her opinion though.

Thanks for all the input on this matter, and safe flying to you all!

Frode



"Ol Shy & Bashful" skrev i melding
oups.com...
Frode
Care to come take a look at my logbooks? I've been flying all over the
world and much of it, about 13000 hours, crop dusting.
If the thought of a midair scares you, stay on the ground, or in
bed.....
If you have had several near miisses in your brief career, please let
me know where you will be flying so I can avoid the area?

"Frode Berg" wrote in message
news
OK.

I will not speak my mind on this forum if this is what happens.

Thanks to all the insightful posts by all you other people!

I just needed to put some statistics into perspective.
After all, I witnessed a mid air right before starting my PPL.

However, tha last week I've flown a few times, and haven't thought much
about it anymore.

I guess mr Ol Shy here is flying around his farm in the middle of nowhere
at 300 feet in his ultralight.

I only have 250 hours total, and have had 3 close encounters. Not really
"near misses" apart from one of them, but they were still to me
uncomfortably close, so you claiming 23.000 hours with none....?
Hmmm...makes you wonder...

Frode

If you have had three close encounters in 250 hours you might benefit from
spending time with an instructor going over scan techniques.

"Ol Shy & Bashful" skrev i melding
roups.com...
Larry
I've been flying over 50 years and have about 23,000 hours logged. I
can count the number of near misses with aircraft on one finger.
Ya WANNA LIVE FOREVER?
sheeesh
Rocky aka Ol Shy & Bashful



On Wed, 10 May 2006 23:52:34 +0200, "Frode Berg"
wrote in ::

OK.

I will not speak my mind on this forum if this is what happens.

Please don't be too sensitive to what is said here. Most folks don't
intend to offend anyone.

Thanks to all the insightful posts by all you other people!

I just needed to put some statistics into perspective.
After all, I witnessed a mid air right before starting my PPL.

However, tha last week I've flown a few times, and haven't thought much
about it anymore.

I guess mr Ol Shy here is flying around his farm in the middle of nowhere at
300 feet in his ultralight.

I think you've identified the difference in your and Rocky's
experiences. A higher air traffic density leads to a higher
probability of a MAC.

I have no idea how the traffic density over Europe compares to that
over various areas of the US, but I can unequivocally state from
personal experience, that the traffic density in the skies within 100
miles of LAX can be intimidating.

When I was in France few years ago, I got the feeling that aside from
Charles De Gaulle, Le Borget and Orly most airports were not very
busy.

I only have 250 hours total, and have had 3 close encounters. Not really
"near misses" apart from one of them, but they were still to me
uncomfortably close, so you claiming 23.000 hours with none....?
Hmmm...makes you wonder...

Frode

Rocky's a good guy with a lot of experience to share. He's just
stating his view on this subject (a bit tongue-in-cheek I suspect), as
are we all. Take what you find useful, and overlook the rest.

"Frode Berg" wrote in message
news
OK.

I will not speak my mind on this forum if this is what happens.

Thanks to all the insightful posts by all you other people!

I just needed to put some statistics into perspective.
After all, I witnessed a mid air right before starting my PPL.

However, tha last week I've flown a few times, and haven't thought much
about it anymore.

I guess mr Ol Shy here is flying around his farm in the middle of nowhere
at 300 feet in his ultralight.

I only have 250 hours total, and have had 3 close encounters. Not really
"near misses" apart from one of them, but they were still to me
uncomfortably close, so you claiming 23.000 hours with none....?
Hmmm...makes you wonder...

Frode


Nope. Old Shy, like I did, started flying about fifty years ago when you
learned to fly by looking out the windows. As a result looking out the
windows becomes a habit when flying. As a result you can see the other
traffic and "near misses" just don't happen very darned often. I have also
been flying about fifty some odd years all over the country includeing some
years flying charters in the NYC area ( yes, it was busy there forty years
ago also ) . In that time I have had two near misses. Both were high
performance turboprops climbing up beneath me on my same course where I had
a hard time seeing them and they were so busy fiddleing with radios and
instruments that neither of them was paying any attention to where they were
going until they looked up and saw my belly filling their windshield.

The other common spot for midairs is short final. You get a high wing on a
straight in approach and a low wing in a tight steep pattern and the low
wing guy can land on top of the high winger. Be especially vigilant around
airports. That is where airplanes often are! :-) Avoid straight in
approachs and always roll level for a short spell on base and look to the
incoming courseline. Be sure to look high and low because you never know
what kind of a glideslope they might be using.

It has worked well for me.

Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )

The closest near miss I've ever had was on final approach
into Wichita [ICT] while giving dual to a student pilot. We
were about number 5 or 6 in the pattern for 19R flying a
Beech Sundowner N18873. These are low-wing with fair
dihedral [for those not familiar]. We were told to extend
downwind by the tower to allow several departures and an
arrival into the pattern. The tower called our base about 4
miles north of the airport. One about a mile final I told
my student that he needed to compensate for the drift as the
wind was changing. I suggested a slip to get aligned and he
dropped the right wing. As is my practice and habit, I
looked in that direction and saw a Cessna 150 about 20 feet
off our wing and just slightly below our altitude. I took
the plane and began a miss and advised the tower. I asked
about the traffic and they told me about the plane I was
following 1/4-1/2 mile ahead I told him about the C150.
Turned out he was to follow us and about 3 miles or so on
downwind his instructor had him turn base. He never saw us
and the tower didn't see the convergence. He turned onto a
collision course and remained under our wing all the way on
base and turning final. I was under radar control and was
probably a little lax, certainly the tower was lax and the
pilots in the C150 had me at 12 O'clock for quite a while
and never saw us. They should have reported to the tower
that they didn't have us and that they were turning base
[w/o clearance].
The pilot had blue eyes and never looked left. The rivets
on a C150 are real big.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P
--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.



"Highflyer" wrote in message
...
|
| "Frode Berg" wrote in message
| news | OK.
|
| I will not speak my mind on this forum if this is what
happens.
|
| Thanks to all the insightful posts by all you other
people!
|
| I just needed to put some statistics into perspective.
| After all, I witnessed a mid air right before starting
my PPL.
|
| However, tha last week I've flown a few times, and
haven't thought much
| about it anymore.
|
| I guess mr Ol Shy here is flying around his farm in the
middle of nowhere
| at 300 feet in his ultralight.
|
| I only have 250 hours total, and have had 3 close
encounters. Not really
| "near misses" apart from one of them, but they were
still to me
| uncomfortably close, so you claiming 23.000 hours with
none....?
| Hmmm...makes you wonder...
|
| Frode
|
|
| Nope. Old Shy, like I did, started flying about fifty
years ago when you
| learned to fly by looking out the windows. As a result
looking out the
| windows becomes a habit when flying. As a result you can
see the other
| traffic and "near misses" just don't happen very darned
often. I have also
| been flying about fifty some odd years all over the
country includeing some
| years flying charters in the NYC area ( yes, it was busy
there forty years
| ago also ) . In that time I have had two near misses.
Both were high
| performance turboprops climbing up beneath me on my same
course where I had
| a hard time seeing them and they were so busy fiddleing
with radios and
| instruments that neither of them was paying any attention
to where they were
| going until they looked up and saw my belly filling their
windshield.
|
| The other common spot for midairs is short final. You get
a high wing on a
| straight in approach and a low wing in a tight steep
pattern and the low
| wing guy can land on top of the high winger. Be
especially vigilant around
| airports. That is where airplanes often are! :-) Avoid
straight in
| approachs and always roll level for a short spell on base
and look to the
| incoming courseline. Be sure to look high and low because
you never know
| what kind of a glideslope they might be using.
|
| It has worked well for me.
|
| Highflyer
| Highflight Aviation Services
| Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )
|
|
|

The closest call I've had was returning solo from RDG (Reading, PA) to SMQ
(Somerset, NJ) in a borrowed school Cherokee 140. My flight took me right
through our local practice area at letdown, so I kept my eyes particularly
open. I entered a very extended 45 for 30, and continued to descend, all
the time watching for traffic. When I was a couple of miles out, I
announced that I was "over route 22 on the 45 for 30, Somerset", and by this
time, had descended to 1,200 feet. For some reason, I decided to go ahead
and descend to 1,100 feet (pattern altitude) at that point, which was what
my first instructor (a 79-year-old veteran) had always insisted on, but was
lower than what every other instructor I had after Lou wanted. When I got
to the "horse farm", our standard reporting point on the 45 for SMQ, I was
about to make a second call when one of the other school Cherokees announced
that he was "over the horse farm at 1,200 feet". While grabbing the mike,
I looked up very carefully and could still see no one. I immediately
announced that I was "directly over the horse farm at 1,100 feet, where are
you?" There was a pause, and he then announced that he was "climbing". I
had dropped down to 1,000 feet instinctively, but didn't have a lot of room
to maneuver, so I made my turn to downwind a bit lower than usual. Someone
at the FBO said "good job, guys". As I turned, I could finally see him
continuing on the 45 over the field. I landed and then waited for him to
park it, too. We figured out that we had probably been within 100 feet of
each other, one directly above the other, all the way from the practice
area. He'd heard my position report over 22, but because he couldn't see
me, decided that it must have been somewhere else (he was a student and we
share the CTAF with five or six airports in the area). He couldn't see me
because of his wing, and I couldn't see him because of the roof overhead.
Even leaning out over the glare shield and jamming my head against the side
window, in the seconds before my "where are you?" announcement, I could not
see him. Scary.

Ever since then I make some S turns before starting my decent. While doing
this I look both up and down for aircraft overhead and underneath.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:N9S9g.20788$ZW3.17105@dukeread04...
The closest near miss I've ever had was on final approach
into Wichita [ICT] while giving dual to a student pilot. We
were about number 5 or 6 in the pattern for 19R flying a
Beech Sundowner N18873. These are low-wing with fair
dihedral [for those not familiar]. We were told to extend
downwind by the tower to allow several departures and an
arrival into the pattern. The tower called our base about 4
miles north of the airport. One about a mile final I told
my student that he needed to compensate for the drift as the
wind was changing. I suggested a slip to get aligned and he
dropped the right wing. As is my practice and habit, I
looked in that direction and saw a Cessna 150 about 20 feet
off our wing and just slightly below our altitude. I took
the plane and began a miss and advised the tower. I asked
about the traffic and they told me about the plane I was
following 1/4-1/2 mile ahead I told him about the C150.
Turned out he was to follow us and about 3 miles or so on
downwind his instructor had him turn base. He never saw us
and the tower didn't see the convergence. He turned onto a
collision course and remained under our wing all the way on
base and turning final. I was under radar control and was
probably a little lax, certainly the tower was lax and the
pilots in the C150 had me at 12 O'clock for quite a while
and never saw us. They should have reported to the tower
that they didn't have us and that they were turning base
[w/o clearance].
The pilot had blue eyes and never looked left. The rivets
on a C150 are real big.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P
--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.



"Highflyer" wrote in message
...
|
| "Frode Berg" wrote in message
| news | OK.
|
| I will not speak my mind on this forum if this is what
happens.
|
| Thanks to all the insightful posts by all you other
people!
|
| I just needed to put some statistics into perspective.
| After all, I witnessed a mid air right before starting
my PPL.
|
| However, tha last week I've flown a few times, and
haven't thought much
| about it anymore.
|
| I guess mr Ol Shy here is flying around his farm in the
middle of nowhere
| at 300 feet in his ultralight.
|
| I only have 250 hours total, and have had 3 close
encounters. Not really
| "near misses" apart from one of them, but they were
still to me
| uncomfortably close, so you claiming 23.000 hours with
none....?
| Hmmm...makes you wonder...
|
| Frode
|
|
| Nope. Old Shy, like I did, started flying about fifty
years ago when you
| learned to fly by looking out the windows. As a result
looking out the
| windows becomes a habit when flying. As a result you can
see the other
| traffic and "near misses" just don't happen very darned
often. I have also
| been flying about fifty some odd years all over the
country includeing some
| years flying charters in the NYC area ( yes, it was busy
there forty years
| ago also ) . In that time I have had two near misses.
Both were high
| performance turboprops climbing up beneath me on my same
course where I had
| a hard time seeing them and they were so busy fiddleing
with radios and
| instruments that neither of them was paying any attention
to where they were
| going until they looked up and saw my belly filling their
windshield.
|
| The other common spot for midairs is short final. You get
a high wing on a
| straight in approach and a low wing in a tight steep
pattern and the low
| wing guy can land on top of the high winger. Be
especially vigilant around
| airports. That is where airplanes often are! :-) Avoid
straight in
| approachs and always roll level for a short spell on base
and look to the
| incoming courseline. Be sure to look high and low because
you never know
| what kind of a glideslope they might be using.
|
| It has worked well for me.
|
| Highflyer
| Highflight Aviation Services
| Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )
|
|
|