Doors popping open in flight

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:


Every time I've ever had a door open in flight I've gone on to my destination.
Trying to latch it tight in flight is an exercise in futility.

It's actually easy if a POH procedure exists.

The ones I've actually used went something like:

XX knots IAS
cabin vents closed
storm window open
shut door

The closed vents, proper speed, and open window create a negative
pressure in the cabin, allowing the door to close easily.

The opinion that it's not much an comfort issue will not be shared by
the back seat pax. I flew the pattern in a PA28-180 with an open door,
and 100 MPH wind in the face was no fun. G That particular pilot
simply landed and shut it.

The real problem with a twin is if the forward baggage door opens, breaks
off due to air loads, and goes through the prop.

There have been several accidents due to this and all the ones I remember
were fatal. There was also an R-22 helicopter here in the NW that just had
the window come off the door a couple of years ago. That window went through
the tail rotor and caused a fatal crash. (This particular window was an
unapproved modification)

Many Cessna 206 and 207 aircraft have had their rear cargo door open in
flight. This is a suicide door and hinges the door to the rear. In this case
the door slams back against the fuselage and causes extensive damage, but
the airplane is controllable.

Best,
Karl
ATP,CFI,ETC
"Curator" N185KG


"bob" wrote in message
. ..
How serious is it on small twin engines with only one door? Or with 2
doors, for that matter?

A friend of mine tells me that he once had a twin engine Piper crash to
investigate due to ditching. It was later learned upon the conclusion of
the investigation that a passenger in the back seat was trying to switch
places with someone in the front and the door inadvertently popped open.
At that point the investigator determined, from his own similar
experience, that the plane sunk like a rock due to critical disruption of
the airflow to that could not be corrected in flight.
--The door could not be closed again!---

As for my friend with his similar experience, his friend's hand was all
bloody from trying to hold it closed as much as he could. Fortunately,
they made a safe emergency landing at an island the just happened to be
nearby.

I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how serious this
could be. They don't teach you that in flight school. Or is it because
single engines with only one door do not react the same as the twins.

Tell me the straight skinny so I know next time I go flying.

Thanks

Baggage can also exit the nose and go through the prop.
Beech added a second internal safety latch so the door only
open about an inch. The nose baggage door is streamlined
and does not cause too much air flow disruption.

The 206 forward door should be closed and locked on top of
the rear door of the pair and should not shield the aft
door. But I have seen this after the fact and suspect that
the pilot was trying to open the doors to drop something.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
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But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
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"karl gruber" wrote in message
...
| The real problem with a twin is if the forward baggage
door opens, breaks
| off due to air loads, and goes through the prop.
|
| There have been several accidents due to this and all the
ones I remember
| were fatal. There was also an R-22 helicopter here in the
NW that just had
| the window come off the door a couple of years ago. That
window went through
| the tail rotor and caused a fatal crash. (This particular
window was an
| unapproved modification)
|
| Many Cessna 206 and 207 aircraft have had their rear cargo
door open in
| flight. This is a suicide door and hinges the door to the
rear. In this case
| the door slams back against the fuselage and causes
extensive damage, but
| the airplane is controllable.
|
| Best,
| Karl
| ATP,CFI,ETC
| "Curator" N185KG
|
|
| "bob" wrote in message
| . ..
| How serious is it on small twin engines with only one
door? Or with 2
| doors, for that matter?
|
| A friend of mine tells me that he once had a twin engine
Piper crash to
| investigate due to ditching. It was later learned upon
the conclusion of
| the investigation that a passenger in the back seat was
trying to switch
| places with someone in the front and the door
inadvertently popped open.
| At that point the investigator determined, from his own
similar
| experience, that the plane sunk like a rock due to
critical disruption of
| the airflow to that could not be corrected in flight.
| --The door could not be closed again!---
|
| As for my friend with his similar experience, his
friend's hand was all
| bloody from trying to hold it closed as much as he
could. Fortunately,
| they made a safe emergency landing at an island the just
happened to be
| nearby.
|
| I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how
serious this
| could be. They don't teach you that in flight school.
Or is it because
| single engines with only one door do not react the same
as the twins.
|
| Tell me the straight skinny so I know next time I go
flying.
|
| Thanks
|
|
|

A suicide door on an airplane? WTF were they thinking?? Thanks for pointing
that out, I would have never guessed an engineer could be that daft. I am
not that familiar with this model, Is there any reason that they would want
this to work that way?

"karl gruber" wrote in message
...
The real problem with a twin is if the forward baggage door opens, breaks
off due to air loads, and goes through the prop.

There have been several accidents due to this and all the ones I remember
were fatal. There was also an R-22 helicopter here in the NW that just had
the window come off the door a couple of years ago. That window went
through the tail rotor and caused a fatal crash. (This particular window
was an unapproved modification)

Many Cessna 206 and 207 aircraft have had their rear cargo door open in
flight. This is a suicide door and hinges the door to the rear. In this
case the door slams back against the fuselage and causes extensive damage,
but the airplane is controllable.

Best,
Karl
ATP,CFI,ETC
"Curator" N185KG


"bob" wrote in message
. ..
How serious is it on small twin engines with only one door? Or with 2
doors, for that matter?

A friend of mine tells me that he once had a twin engine Piper crash to
investigate due to ditching. It was later learned upon the conclusion
of the investigation that a passenger in the back seat was trying to
switch places with someone in the front and the door inadvertently popped
open. At that point the investigator determined, from his own similar
experience, that the plane sunk like a rock due to critical disruption of
the airflow to that could not be corrected in flight.
--The door could not be closed again!---

As for my friend with his similar experience, his friend's hand was all
bloody from trying to hold it closed as much as he could. Fortunately,
they made a safe emergency landing at an island the just happened to be
nearby.

I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how serious this
could be. They don't teach you that in flight school. Or is it because
single engines with only one door do not react the same as the twins.

Tell me the straight skinny so I know next time I go flying.

Thanks

Bob,

As for my friend with his similar experience, his friend's hand was all
bloody from trying to hold it closed as much as he could.


Why did he try?

Normally, the car-type doors will open a certain amount and stay there in
the airflow. No big deal. Except for some planes, of course: I wouldn't
want to see it in the Tobago I fly, which has gull wing doors. Experiences
range from the door and its frame seriously getting bent to the door
ripping off and hitting the stabilizer. Not good.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"bob" wrote in message
. ..
How serious is it on small twin engines with only one door? Or with 2
doors, for that matter?

A friend of mine tells me that he once had a twin engine Piper crash to
investigate due to ditching. It was later learned upon the conclusion of
the investigation that a passenger in the back seat was trying to switch
places with someone in the front and the door inadvertently popped open.
At that point the investigator determined, from his own similar
experience, that the plane sunk like a rock due to critical disruption of
the airflow to that could not be corrected in flight.
--The door could not be closed again!---

As for my friend with his similar experience, his friend's hand was all
bloody from trying to hold it closed as much as he could. Fortunately,
they made a safe emergency landing at an island the just happened to be
nearby.

I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how serious this
could be. They don't teach you that in flight school. Or is it because
single engines with only one door do not react the same as the twins.

Tell me the straight skinny so I know next time I go flying.

Thanks

1965 Beech Travelair, two adults with bags, full fuel, still well under
gross, 500' MSL, gear up, flaps up, nice cool spring day, normal climb out =
1100 FPM, door pops open = 300 FPM, been there, done that :-(

Allen

I learned to fly in the summer so we always took off with the doors
open. It really helped keep us cooler. I was surprised teh first time I
found out that most pilots close the doors before flight, even when its
not cold.

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message

I learned to fly in the summer so we always took off with the doors open.
It really helped keep us cooler. I was surprised teh first time I found
out that most pilots close the doors before flight, even when its
not cold.

Really? It's part of the run-up checklist, isn't it?

See if I ever go for a submarine ride with YOU! :

-c

I learned to fly in the summer so we always took off with the doors open
Really? It's part of the run-up checklist, isn't it?

I was flying C140's and Aeroncas. The "runup checklist" was CIGARS.
Strangely, we didn't all die a flaming death contrary to what people
often think today.

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
I learned to fly in the summer so we always took off with the doors open
Really? It's part of the run-up checklist, isn't it?

I was flying C140's and Aeroncas. The "runup checklist" was CIGARS.
Strangely, we didn't all die a flaming death contrary to what people
often think today.


Lets see, open door in a Beech Sport - noisy but otherwise no big deal. Land
and close it.

Then there was the "sandwich" incident...

My brother and I had been visiting the 'rents and were flying back in a
C-120. Mom, of course, packed us a lunch to take with us. So, I'm hungry,
and I reach behind the seat feel around, come up with a sandwich. Turns out
to be a dry bologna sandwich, bread wasn't that fresh, but whatever... Then
my brother, being the smarter of the two of us, though to actully unbuckle
and LOOK instead of just feeling around over the seat back. A moment later,
he announces "Hey! There's a box of doughnuts back here!". Without even
thinking, I open up the door and throw the sandwich out.

It took a couple tries, but I managed to get the door closed again, then it
occured to me - what was under us when I threw the sandwich out? As luck
would have it, we were over nothing but farms so the sandwich probably just
landed in a field unnoticed. But I've always wondered what someone would
have thought if they had seen two half eaten slices of bread and some
bologna falling out of the sky.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
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