Doors popping open in flight

Robert M. Gary wrote:
I learned to fly in the summer so we always took off with the doors
open. It really helped keep us cooler. I was surprised teh first time I
found out that most pilots close the doors before flight, even when its
not cold.

-Robert


Doors are for barns. Real airplane have canopies. I've had the
canopy pop open, but then it's legal for me to fly with it open.
Oddly enough, just as with many aircraft doors, the aerodynamic
forces make the Navion canopy want to pretty much close all the
way in flight. You can really only fly with it open if you
latch it open before takeoff. There is a cable that gives you
the leverage to pull it open in flight, but my plane doesn't
have it.

Bob
Some excellent replies here and it sounds like some, by pilots who have
experienced various doors opening, without disastrous result.
I've had a number of doors come open on quite a variety of aircraft
(does that say something about how really fragile they are?) and not
much more than a fright to either me, or the PAX. As part of my own
training regimine, I cause a door to open for many of the flights I
give with students to show them the non-existent danger or proper
procedures to close said door again.
Have had baggage doors pop open on several aircraft and had to land to
close them again. No big deal but certainly annoying. Open doors on
some aricraft that disrupted the airflow, like the Pipers, and
Beechcraft with the cabin doors that curved up on the fuselage. It is
more of a fright factor than anything. Vertical cabin doors are nearly
impossible to open more than a handspan in flight with airflow pushing
them shut.... Cabin windows, like the emergency exit on Barons, cause
nothing more than a loud roar and scare crap out of whoever is sitting
there....especially over the Sierras at night out of Tahoeggg
I participated in an accident investigation years ago on a Beech Queen
Air A65/80 that crashed after a baggage door opened in flight shortly
after takeoff at ABQ. It turned out the baggage was spilling out of the
compartment into the left propellor causing an engine failure. It was
not an aircraft design problem causing the crash, but one of pilot
error. I got involved simply because the aircraft that crashed was one
digit away from the one I was flying at the time and we used it to
attempt duplication of the crash scenario to see if it was aircraft
design or pilot error.
Bottom line is, I don't think an unexpected door opening on any
aircraft is cause for crash or panic. Structural integrity may be at
risk in some high speed exotic aircraft, but I don't know of any that
are that critically affected aerodynamically.
Same can be said of instrument failure and a pilot doing the panic
routine just because they didn't have the airspeed, or altimeter, or
compass, or ????
If you are still concerned, go up in the aircraft you normally fly with
an instructor or experienced pilot, and crack a door to see what it
does. If nothing else it will prove
how difficult it is to open the door enough to cause danger.
I remember the time whan I tried to make a parachute jump from the
backseat of a Piper TriPacer back in the early 60's and ......well
thats a story for another time after we have a San Pablo.....ggg
Ol Shy & Bashful

"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote in message
oups.com...
Bob
I participated in an accident investigation years ago on a Beech Queen
Air A65/80 that crashed after a baggage door opened in flight shortly
after takeoff at ABQ. It turned out the baggage was spilling out of the
compartment into the left propellor causing an engine failure. It was
not an aircraft design problem causing the crash, but one of pilot
error. I got involved simply because the aircraft that crashed was one
digit away from the one I was flying at the time and we used it to
attempt duplication of the crash scenario to see if it was aircraft
design or pilot error.

I believe Ben Abruzzo the ballonist also died that way in ABQ in a Cessna
421. He was headed out on a ski trip with a plane load of passengers. The
nose baggage door popped open and skis began to head for the propeller. I
think someone said he intended to shut down the left engine but somehow
wound up shutting them both down. Almost made it back to the runway but hit
a raised road just short and burst into flames.

I found this googling:

February 11, 1985: Ben Abruzzo, a crew member on the Double Eagle II, the
first balloon to cross the Atlantic Ocean nonstop, was killed along with
several passengers when his twin-engine plane crashed shortly after taking
off from the Albuquerque, New Mexico airport. An investigation showed that
the probable cause of the crash was an external luggage compartment door
which had been left open. The best idea from aircraft data was that he had
pulled back on the gas of the closest prop to the door and then
inadvertently feathered the wrong prop, thus rendering both engines
inoperative. Before his death, Abruzzo was also a member of the first team
to fly a balloon nonstop across the Pacific Ocean.

Having a door pop open should be a non-event. Air pressure will keep it from
opening more than an inch or two, the noise is distracting, papers fly
around the cockpit, and passengers freak out. IMHO it is a waste of time and
energy to attempt closure in flight...land and do it right.

There will be disturbed airflow over the horizontal stabilizer on the
open-door side, but nothing that the pilot cannot deal with.

Bob Gardner



"bob" wrote in message
. ..
How serious is it on small twin engines with only one door? Or with 2
doors, for that matter?

A friend of mine tells me that he once had a twin engine Piper crash to
investigate due to ditching. It was later learned upon the conclusion of
the investigation that a passenger in the back seat was trying to switch
places with someone in the front and the door inadvertently popped open.
At that point the investigator determined, from his own similar
experience, that the plane sunk like a rock due to critical disruption of
the airflow to that could not be corrected in flight.
--The door could not be closed again!---

As for my friend with his similar experience, his friend's hand was all
bloody from trying to hold it closed as much as he could. Fortunately,
they made a safe emergency landing at an island the just happened to be
nearby.

I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how serious this
could be. They don't teach you that in flight school. Or is it because
single engines with only one door do not react the same as the twins.

Tell me the straight skinny so I know next time I go flying.

Thanks

Having a door pop open should be a non-event.

There was a Mooney crash a few years back caused by the baggage door
opening in flight. Apparently the airflow over the tail was disrupted
on final and caused the crash. If the baggage door opens in flight the
recommendation in the Mooney community now is to keep your speed up on
final (which in a Mooney means find a really long runway).

-Robert

The critical issue would be Vmca with a door open, it has
not been flight tested and how much Vmca will increase is
just a guess.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
| Having a door pop open should be a non-event. Air pressure
will keep it from
| opening more than an inch or two, the noise is
distracting, papers fly
| around the cockpit, and passengers freak out. IMHO it is a
waste of time and
| energy to attempt closure in flight...land and do it
right.
|
| There will be disturbed airflow over the horizontal
stabilizer on the
| open-door side, but nothing that the pilot cannot deal
with.
|
| Bob Gardner
|
|
|
| "bob" wrote in message
| . ..
| How serious is it on small twin engines with only one
door? Or with 2
| doors, for that matter?
|
| A friend of mine tells me that he once had a twin engine
Piper crash to
| investigate due to ditching. It was later learned upon
the conclusion of
| the investigation that a passenger in the back seat was
trying to switch
| places with someone in the front and the door
inadvertently popped open.
| At that point the investigator determined, from his own
similar
| experience, that the plane sunk like a rock due to
critical disruption of
| the airflow to that could not be corrected in flight.
| --The door could not be closed again!---
|
| As for my friend with his similar experience, his
friend's hand was all
| bloody from trying to hold it closed as much as he
could. Fortunately,
| they made a safe emergency landing at an island the just
happened to be
| nearby.
|
| I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how
serious this
| could be. They don't teach you that in flight school.
Or is it because
| single engines with only one door do not react the same
as the twins.
|
| Tell me the straight skinny so I know next time I go
flying.
|
| Thanks
|
|
|

Several years ago, in Plane & Pilot magazine, there was an article on a
six-place Piper (Saratoga?). One of the pictures showed the upper latch of
the cabin door clearly unlatched, with the resulting gap visible. Apparently
they had no problems (except for the noise)

A few years ago, I departed IFR in my Seneca, and the forward door became
unlatched. There was a lot of wind noise, but like other posters here said,
there was no need
to hold the door open. I was flying from Palmer MA, to Islip, NY. (Turning
back to Palmer was out of the question) I made a request for a landing at
Groton, CT.
The controllers put my IFR in suspense, and
after landing I was on my merry (and quieter) way.

"bob" wrote in message
. ..
How serious is it on small twin engines with only one door? Or with 2
doors, for that matter?

A friend of mine tells me that he once had a twin engine Piper crash to
investigate due to ditching. It was later learned upon the conclusion of
the investigation that a passenger in the back seat was trying to switch
places with someone in the front and the door inadvertently popped open.
At
that point the investigator determined, from his own similar experience,
that the plane sunk like a rock due to critical disruption of the airflow
to that could not be corrected in flight.
--The door could not be closed again!---

As for my friend with his similar experience, his friend's hand was all
bloody from trying to hold it closed as much as he could. Fortunately,
they
made a safe emergency landing at an island the just happened to be nearby.

I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how serious this
could
be. They don't teach you that in flight school. Or is it because single
engines with only one door do not react the same as the twins.

Tell me the straight skinny so I know next time I go flying.

Thanks

ummm. let's change "hold the door open" to "hold the door closed"
"tom418" wrote in message
news:fTmbg.130490$k%3.2538@dukeread12...
Several years ago, in Plane & Pilot magazine, there was an article on a
six-place Piper (Saratoga?). One of the pictures showed the upper latch of
the cabin door clearly unlatched, with the resulting gap visible.
Apparently
they had no problems (except for the noise)

A few years ago, I departed IFR in my Seneca, and the forward door became
unlatched. There was a lot of wind noise, but like other posters here
said,
there was no need
to hold the door open. I was flying from Palmer MA, to Islip, NY. (Turning
back to Palmer was out of the question) I made a request for a landing at
Groton, CT.
The controllers put my IFR in suspense, and
after landing I was on my merry (and quieter) way.

"bob" wrote in message
. ..
How serious is it on small twin engines with only one door? Or with 2
doors, for that matter?

A friend of mine tells me that he once had a twin engine Piper crash to
investigate due to ditching. It was later learned upon the conclusion
of
the investigation that a passenger in the back seat was trying to switch
places with someone in the front and the door inadvertently popped open.
At
that point the investigator determined, from his own similar
experience,
that the plane sunk like a rock due to critical disruption of the
airflow
to that could not be corrected in flight.
--The door could not be closed again!---

As for my friend with his similar experience, his friend's hand was all
bloody from trying to hold it closed as much as he could. Fortunately,
they
made a safe emergency landing at an island the just happened to be
nearby.

I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how serious this
could
be. They don't teach you that in flight school. Or is it because
single
engines with only one door do not react the same as the twins.

Tell me the straight skinny so I know next time I go flying.

Thanks

I've had a door pop open on a Baron, and it does get loud. All of the charts
on the front seat and my jacket nearly got sucked out. The plane definitely
did not fly as well with the door open. The extra drag was very noticeable,
even though it trailed open only around two inches. I was able to get it
partially closed, and the acceleration was very apparent, but I finally gave
up and landed.

While distraction is an issue, the handling was a lot different.

"bob" wrote in message
. ..

I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how serious this
could be. They don't teach you that in flight school. Or is it because
single engines with only one door do not react the same as the twins.

Tell me the straight skinny so I know next time I go flying.

I posted about this a couple of weeks ago when the door on the Arrow II I
was flying unlatched.

A high-wing door -should- close itself enough that it won't disrupt airflow.
A low-wing door, which is what I was flying, is a little trickier, I THINK
because the low pressure over the wing draws the door out slightly, but the
airflow keeps it closed enough that I determined that trying to close it in
solo flight was more of a distraction that landing the airplane at a nearby
strip and resecuring the door.

My windbreaker and sectional vanished, though.

-c