Flying through Canadian airspace

We like to tell people that GA gives them a 33.3% chance of seeing us
on any
assigned date...

Forewarned is forearmed

denny

I'm going to Cleveland today... Since the the lake is warmer than in
winter (still not survival temperature, but I do fly a twin so the
risks are less) I'm going to go HYX direct Windsor VOR (YQG), direct
Sandusky VOR (SKY), direct Burke Lake Front (BKL) - going past the East
side of the Detroit B and out over the lake... My son wants to fly the
outbound trip and he is not up to handling an IFR flight so I'll try
filing a VFR plan this time over Canada to see if it is different from
doing it IFR and report my findings to the group...
On safety - I have hard and fast rules about not going past gliding
distance to the shore when the water is below survival temperature...
This YQG-SKY-BKL route keeps me within gliding distance of the various
islands or the shoreline - Pelee, Kelly, North, Put-in-bay, etc...

BTW, I was on the phone to FSS yesterday about todays weather... Dunno
if it has changed into private hands or if the federal employees there
can feel change breathing down their necks, but I gotta tell ya the
briefer was so accomodating and over friendly I wondered if they
thought I was somebody in a position of power...

denny

In a previous article, "M" said:
I'll take a few flights between Rochester, NY and the Detroit area this
summer. Going through the Canadian airspace just seems so much
shorter. I can go IFR.

I'm a member of the Rochester Flying Club and I fly into or over Canada
quite frequently.

My questions is:

* I don't need to deal with customs at all, as long as I don't stop at
Canada, right?

Correct.

* Do I need to use the ICAO flight plan for the IFR, or is the FAA
domestic flight plan sufficient for these flights?

The standard FAA flight plan works for over flights or even for flights
into Canada.

* Since I'll use Canadian ATC service during the overflight, will I
get a bill from NavCanada when I get home?

Yes, it's still around $15 (Canadian), and it's good for a whole quarter -
so if you fly back before the quarter is over, you won't get another bill.

* Is it easier to do this IFR or VFR? I assume doing this IFR would
make the Canadian overflight easier, but I'm very open to suggestions.

IFR is easier. If it's VFR, you MUST be on a flight plan and you MUST be
talking to ATC and on an assigned squawk code while crossing the border.
If you're going to file and talk to ATC, you might as well do it IFR.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
But seriously, I've got root, so it's his problem.
-- Nick Manka

* Since I'll use Canadian ATC service during the overflight, will I
get a bill from NavCanada when I get home?

Yes, it's still around $15 (Canadian), and it's good for a whole quarter -
so if you fly back before the quarter is over, you won't get another bill.

When did this go into effect?
I have never been charged for previous overflights.
If I landed at a Canadian airfield, I was charged, and rightly so.
It is my understanding that there is a bilateral agreement not to charge
for overflights.

In a previous article, john smith said:
* Since I'll use Canadian ATC service during the overflight, will I
get a bill from NavCanada when I get home?

Yes, it's still around $15 (Canadian), and it's good for a whole quarter -
so if you fly back before the quarter is over, you won't get another bill.

When did this go into effect?
I have never been charged for previous overflights.

You're right. I thought they'd removed the exemption for overflights, but
I just checked the current fee schedule
http://www.navcanada.ca/ContentDefin...ide_New_en.pdf
and it still says that flights from one part of the US to another are
still exempt.

Since I land in Canada several times a year, I guess I never got a chance
to notice that they didn't charge if I somehow avoided landing there for a
quarter.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Mommy, what does "Formatting Drive C:" mean?

Paul Tomblin wrote:

In a previous article, john smith said:

* Since I'll use Canadian ATC service during the overflight, will I
get a bill from NavCanada when I get home?

Yes, it's still around $15 (Canadian), and it's good for a whole quarter -
so if you fly back before the quarter is over, you won't get another bill.

When did this go into effect?
I have never been charged for previous overflights.


You're right. I thought they'd removed the exemption for overflights, but
I just checked the current fee schedule
http://www.navcanada.ca/ContentDefin...ide_New_en.pdf
and it still says that flights from one part of the US to another are
still exempt.

Since I land in Canada several times a year, I guess I never got a chance
to notice that they didn't charge if I somehow avoided landing there for a
quarter.

I believe that is reciprocal because USA ATC does not charge Canadian
pilots for similar services.

About 5 years ago I flew from Detroit to Rochester VFR over Canada. I filed
a VFR flight plan and used flight following the entire way. At that time
there was no charge for Canadian ATC if you didn't land in Canada. Things
may have changed since then.

One thing that was interesting is that north of Lake Erie, ATC was provided
by Cleveland Center eventhough I was over Canda. near Niagra Falls I was
passed off to Toronto Center, and then back to the US when I got back into
the US.

Mike Schumann

"M" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'll take a few flights between Rochester, NY and the Detroit area this
summer. Going through the Canadian airspace just seems so much
shorter. I can go IFR.

My questions is:

* I don't need to deal with customs at all, as long as I don't stop at
Canada, right?
* Do I need to use the ICAO flight plan for the IFR, or is the FAA
domestic flight plan sufficient for these flights?
* Since I'll use Canadian ATC service during the overflight, will I
get a bill from NavCanada when I get home?
* Is it easier to do this IFR or VFR? I assume doing this IFR would
make the Canadian overflight easier, but I'm very open to suggestions.

Thanks!

Mike Schumann wrote:
About 5 years ago I flew from Detroit to Rochester VFR over Canada. I filed
a VFR flight plan and used flight following the entire way. At that time
there was no charge for Canadian ATC if you didn't land in Canada. Things
may have changed since then.

One thing that was interesting is that north of Lake Erie, ATC was provided
by Cleveland Center eventhough I was over Canda. near Niagra Falls I was
passed off to Toronto Center, and then back to the US when I got back into
the US.

I flew from Elmira to Detroit several years ago and also overflew Canada
for part of the trip. I never talked to a Canadian ATC facility, which
I thought was surprising.


Matt

M wrote:
* Since I'll use Canadian ATC service during the overflight, will I
get a bill from NavCanada when I get home?

I often fly IFR over, and occasionally to, Ontario, and I've never
received a bill. Maybe it's just me.

* Is it easier to do this IFR or VFR? I assume doing this IFR would
make the Canadian overflight easier, but I'm very open to suggestions.

I've been under the impression that Toronto Center would rather not
provide VFR radar service. If only for that, I think IFR is easier.