Busted TFR, what to expect?

On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 00:59:47 GMT, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
wrote:

David J. Zera wrote:
well.....just food for thought all of the major cell phone carriers sell a
program that can be downloaded to many phones that has TFR's as well as full
weather its called Pilot My-cast

https://secure.my-cast.com/pilot.jsp


Looks pretty good except it works for every phone known to man except the one I
JUST got two weeks ago. I'n stuck with it for two years, too.

It works with my phone, but I'd have to change providers to use it
with that phone which doesn't make sense.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Damn.
Roger

Mortimer,

The list that Digital cyclone keeps on supported phone is really out of
date. depending on your carrier access the download pages on the phone's
web. My sprint phone (mm9000) is not listed on the supported pages BUT it is
supported and downloadable from Sprint's site. I believe that you will find
that you can download and use it!

Dave Zera
Co-Chariman
Safety / Flight line
AirVenture 2006
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
...
David J. Zera wrote:
well.....just food for thought all of the major cell phone carriers sell
a
program that can be downloaded to many phones that has TFR's as well as
full
weather its called Pilot My-cast

https://secure.my-cast.com/pilot.jsp


Looks pretty good except it works for every phone known to man except the
one I JUST got two weeks ago. I'n stuck with it for two years, too.

Damn.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Nice idea, but doesn't work with my phone.

I still haven't got the letter from the FAA detailing my punishment,
but after talking to the FSDO a few times I know what to expect:

- 30 day license suspension for violating the TFR, NASA ASRS form
doesn't work to suspend penalty

- Another 15 days added by local FSDO for failing to get complete
information before flight; actually serving the penalty is waived by
ASRS

Other things I learned, most from AOPA's web site:

- When asked to return a phone call, whether the tower, ATC, or the
FAA, a pilot is under absolutely no legal requirement to do so.

- And in fact you're often better off not to call back. Even the FSDO
guy admitted that they lessen their add-on penalty if they're not sure
they have the right person. In other words, being stand-up and not
concealing anything simply makes you an easy target and a chump. I
would probably call back for a tower or class C controller, but
probably won't for anything else in the future.

- If you decide to call for a briefing before every flight, you can
ask for just NOTAMs and TFRs. However this may not protect you from
the add-on penalty for not getting complete info before flight.

- FSS briefers can and do fail to report vital information, most often
if it's out of their region. Two local pilots, after hearing about
me, related tales of neglected information (a safety TFR and a
malfunctioning VOR) that would be pretty important to flight safety.
They knew about these only by chance, and when they asked the FSS
briefer about them, the response they got was "Oh yea, thanks for
reminding me!" (TFR) and "Oh, does anybody use VORs anymore?" But at
least you'll be on record and your legal butt will be safe, if not
your physical butt.

More when I get the letter....sometime.

Bob Fry wrote:
- FSS briefers can and do fail to report vital information, most often
if it's out of their region. Two local pilots, after hearing about
me, related tales of neglected information (a safety TFR and a
malfunctioning VOR) that would be pretty important to flight safety.
They knew about these only by chance, and when they asked the FSS
briefer about them, the response they got was "Oh yea, thanks for
reminding me!" (TFR) and "Oh, does anybody use VORs anymore?" But at
least you'll be on record and your legal butt will be safe, if not
your physical butt.

I discovered a wonderful example of that recently. R-5206 is about 15
miles from White Plains (HPN). It's active mostly in July and August, but
"O/T by NOTAM", and it does indeed get activated from time to time year
round. You would think calling FSS and asking for a "notams in a 25 mile
radius around HPN" would get you the information that R-5206 was hot,
right? WRONG!

It turns out, that R-5206's notams are filed under IGN (Kingston VOR), and
IGN is more than 25 miles from HPN, so the notam doesn't show up in the
25-mile briefing. What idiocy!

I've been flying in the area for 10 years and only found this out a couple
of months ago, pretty much by accident. I asked a student of mine to give
me the highlights of his briefing. I knew 5206 was hot because I saw the
notam (I typically ask duats for a 50-mile radius, and IGN falls within
that). He gave me a complete weather rundown, but didn't mention the
notam. I asked him about 5206, and he said the briefer didn't say anything
about it.

At this point, I started to suspect he hadn't really gotten a briefing, so
I made him get another one, and put it on speaker while I listened. He
did, and sure enough, the briefer said nothing about 5206. Before he hung
up, I asked specifically about 5206 and got the notam telling us it was
hot. It wasn't until sometime later that I put two and two together and
figured out the IGN bit.

What is it with you guys busting TFR's ?? Don;t you ever get weather
briefings?? I can't figure it out. I have my students get a Wx
briefing before every flight, even if local that way we are informed.

Personally, I think most of these TFR are a stupid PITA but there is
littel dang excuse for a licensed pilot to bust one unless it were an
emergency.


John Doe wrote:
"bob" wrote in message
oups.com...

Seems I busted a VIP TFR Monday near Sacramento (VP Cheney was in town
raising money for a couple of congressmen). On landing at my
destination I was asked by the airport manager to call an ATC number,
who got my info and said they would forward it to the local FSDO as a
"pilot deviation". I'm not disputing that I indeed was ignorant of the
TFR and violated it.

So what can I expect? I've already figured out that the Secret Service
isn't going to arrest me. My biggest concern is what it will do to my
insurance costs when I renew next year. Should I bother filing the
NASA ASRS form? Since I'm a PP-ASEL and flying is a hobby, I don't
otherwise care a lot if my license is suspended for a time or I end up
with a record.



I had my first experience with a VIP TFR last weekend. Bush was in town and
I had gotten an email from AOPA notifying me of the TFR in my area. I
thought that was awesome that I got advance notice through email.

Anyway, I do my normal flight planning and sure enough, the TFR is active
over the top of my non-towered airfield.

I go out to the airfield, and for some strange reason, I kind of expected
the FBO to have posted something, somewhere, that there was an active TFR
over the top of this airfield, but nope, nothing. I'm not even sure anyone
at the FBO knew it was there.

I was just slightly suprised. So for all the pilots out there who don't
religously check the NOTAMS immediately before takeoff, you can all too
easily be bitten by a TFR.

Had my airfield been 2nm closer to the event, I would have been within the
restricted airspace and could have facen the worst case reprocutions if I
busted the airspace.

Luckily, I've learned to check NOTAMS prior to every flight, and following
the procedures, the TFR didn't delay me at all in getting on my way.

What is it with you guys busting TFR's ?? Don;t you ever get weather
briefings?? I can't figure it out. I have my students get a Wx
briefing before every flight, even if local that way we are informed.

The system has its flaws.
I can call for a briefing before I leave for the airport.
Problem is, the airfield is a 45 minute drive.
Add 30 minutes to get the airplane out of the hangar and preflighted.
Another 15 minutes before I get airborne.
My information is now 1.5 hours old.
I do not have a phone at the airfield, and the aircraft is an antique
with no electrical system or radios.
I have no way of knowing if anything has changed from my original
briefing until I land at my destination.

john smith wrote:
I have no way of knowing if anything has changed from my original
briefing until I land at my destination.

Well certainly, if a TFR were suddenly thrown up between the time
you got your briefing and the time you took off there would be a
problem. In fact though, the chances of that happening are probably
pretty slim and to my knowledge has not been a factor in any cases
of busted TFRs. Having gotten your briefing (which is documented)
your ass would be at least covered for an accidental bust in the
unlikely event they trew up a TFR over your area between the time
you got your briefing and the time you took off. If you are flying
XC a radio is an essential item, really -- IMHO.

Your punishment is to go dove hunting with Cheney next year. That'll
teach ya!

On 24 May 2006 16:35:39 -0700, "bob" wrote:

Seems I busted a VIP TFR Monday near Sacramento (VP Cheney was in town
raising money for a couple of congressmen). On landing at my
destination I was asked by the airport manager to call an ATC number,
who got my info and said they would forward it to the local FSDO as a
"pilot deviation". I'm not disputing that I indeed was ignorant of the
TFR and violated it.

So what can I expect? I've already figured out that the Secret Service
isn't going to arrest me. My biggest concern is what it will do to my
insurance costs when I renew next year. Should I bother filing the
NASA ASRS form? Since I'm a PP-ASEL and flying is a hobby, I don't
otherwise care a lot if my license is suspended for a time or I end up
with a record.

On Wed, 24 May 2006 20:57:15 -0500, Jon A wrote:

Your punishment is to go dove hunting with Cheney next year. That'll
teach ya!

it is _really_ _funny_ to read the reactions. duck and hide, your elected
representatives are in town.


by now you have to deal with TFRs - sure, but what are you doing against
them (and all other restrictions and limitations they shove upon your ... -
not only aviation related)? moving to China because they tend to become
more liberal than you?


#m, Lenovo PCs, anybody? *ROTFL*
--
Lost the phone number of a good friend? Don't know whom the kids called?
Don't worry any longer! Call 1-800-2NSA ... we are here to help you!

In rec.aviation.misc Jon A wrote:
Your punishment is to go dove hunting with Cheney next year. That'll
teach ya!

I'd rather go dove hunting with Cheney than driving with Ted Kennedy!

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jeratfrii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 240 Young Eagles!