MOA's

At 11:24 26 May 2006, Gary Emerson wrote:
This may have already been attempted, but if not, might
be worth a try..

Call the Luke commander, say 'Say, I think we're actually
a lot closer
to being on the same page than it seems, would you
have time for lunch
one day this week?'


Or better still, offer him a ride in a Duo during the
contest ?

Ian

Luke AFB decided this afternoon to suspend training in all MOAs
starting at 1300 hours next week. No doubt they're going to turn around
and use that as ammunition to lobby the FAA for reclassification of
those MOAs as restricted airspace.

I sure hope that SSA and the AOPA will be heavily involved in this
battle. I for one plan on making more than a little crunching sound
when that big foot starts to come down from on high!

~ted/2NO

wrote:
Luke AFB decided this afternoon to suspend training in all MOAs
starting at 1300 hours next week. No doubt they're going to turn around
and use that as ammunition to lobby the FAA for reclassification of
those MOAs as restricted airspace.

I sure hope that SSA and the AOPA will be heavily involved in this
battle. I for one plan on making more than a little crunching sound
when that big foot starts to come down from on high!

~ted/2NO


Here is an opportunity to lay some positive groundwork no only for this
location, but for everyone in soaring.

Not being familiar with the site location details, but let's say that
you expect weather to keep cloudbase (and therefore gliders) below say
10k ft. (pick whatever altitude is realistic, yet conservative)

Call up the base commander, say "Hey, we heard you canceled all your
operations for next week. We're highly confident that we're not going
to exceed 10k ft (or whatever the number is). If you simply keep
everyone above 10k, we're going to be able to co-exist and you'll be
able to keep training on schedule."

The ride in a Duo is a great idea as well...

This is only a suggestion, but you see where it's headed - maybe there
are other ways to soften this impact on the folks at Luke and we all
benefit later..

Gary Emerson wrote:
wrote:
Luke AFB decided this afternoon to suspend training in all MOAs
starting at 1300 hours next week. No doubt they're going to turn around
and use that as ammunition to lobby the FAA for reclassification of
those MOAs as restricted airspace.

I sure hope that SSA and the AOPA will be heavily involved in this
battle. I for one plan on making more than a little crunching sound
when that big foot starts to come down from on high!

~ted/2NO


Here is an opportunity to lay some positive groundwork no only for this
location, but for everyone in soaring.

Not being familiar with the site location details, but let's say that
you expect weather to keep cloudbase (and therefore gliders) below say
10k ft. (pick whatever altitude is realistic, yet conservative)


That was exactly our approach - I was chosen as the liaison guy 'cos I
forecast the weather. We also agreed to stay out of one MOA completely
and one sector of a second one.

Mike


Call up the base commander, say "Hey, we heard you canceled all your
operations for next week. We're highly confident that we're not going
to exceed 10k ft (or whatever the number is). If you simply keep
everyone above 10k, we're going to be able to co-exist and you'll be
able to keep training on schedule."

The ride in a Duo is a great idea as well...

This is only a suggestion, but you see where it's headed - maybe there
are other ways to soften this impact on the folks at Luke and we all
benefit later..

At 23:06 26 May 2006, wrote:
Luke AFB decided this afternoon to suspend training
in all MOAs
starting at 1300 hours next week. No doubt they're
going to turn around
and use that as ammunition to lobby the FAA for reclassification
of
those MOAs as restricted airspace.

I sure hope that SSA and the AOPA will be heavily involved
in this
battle. I for one plan on making more than a little
crunching sound
when that big foot starts to come down from on high!

~ted/2NO



OK that’s one less thing to worry about in the air.
So I guess push now has come to shove with the local
Military. I went out today and flew through an MOA
just because I can and will continue to do so since
regs permit it. The person at Luke making this bad
call may be biting off more than they can chew.
Would he be happy if all airspace around Phoenix was
reserved for their training flights? What they need
to recommend is that all of this airspce is changed
from MOA's to restricted. Good luck!

Is this something like flying R/C above 400' within 4 miles of the
airport? The rules say the airport manager has to be NOTIFIED. It does
NOT say that he has to grant permission. We got into that once flying
R/C Sailplanes when the local airport manager came ranting that even
though we had posted on his bulliten board and sent him a registered
letter, that he had not APPROVED it. We showed him the ruile and asked
him to show us where it said he had to. We never heard from him again,
and flew there for years after the airport had been made into a housing
addition. MOA airspace belongs to the public, not the government.
There's way too much of it to lose. I, too, hope the SSA and AOPA step
in on this one.

Jack Womack

Jack wrote:
Is this something like flying R/C above 400' within 4 miles of the
airport? The rules say the airport manager has to be NOTIFIED. It does
NOT say that he has to grant permission. We got into that once flying
R/C Sailplanes when the local airport manager came ranting that even
though we had posted on his bulliten board and sent him a registered
letter, that he had not APPROVED it. We showed him the ruile and asked
him to show us where it said he had to. We never heard from him again,
and flew there for years after the airport had been made into a housing
addition. MOA airspace belongs to the public, not the government.
There's way too much of it to lose. I, too, hope the SSA and AOPA step
in on this one.

We should be careful not to lump the FAA into the same "government" as
the military on this one. Our experience in Washington State (and I
think elsewhere) is that the FAA is not keen to have public airspace
transformed into military airspace. It doesn't make their job any easier.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

Again, MOAs are shared airspace that have military activity. Other
aircraft have free unfettered access and don't have to either ask
permission or inform military authorities.

Our contest coordination was a courtesy to inform others of potential
conflict and to find a mutually acceptable way to address it.

In 40+ years of flying in the area, including at least two earlier
contests in the same area, we have had no reported conflict between
military aircraft and gliders. Previous coordination has worked
successfully with no major impact on either the miltary or the contest.

However, there have been conflicts between military traffic and general
aviation that have led to the request for more restrictions. The
glider contest appears to be a convenient weapon for the military to
argue for further restricted airspace.

Mike