B-58

Well the XB-70 was a class above the B58,
but the Ruskies may have had something
better.

Ken

What a/c are you referring to? The Tu-128 Fiddler interceptor or the
Tu-22 Blinder bomber (both based on the failed Tu-98 Backfin)?

Tysbin had its own design based on the NM-1- the RSR:

http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/stuff/Bask/mode...ybin_rsr_2.jpg

Rob

Rob Arndt wrote:
Well the XB-70 was a class above the B58,
but the Ruskies may have had something
better.

Ken

What a/c are you referring to? The Tu-128 Fiddler interceptor or the
Tu-22 Blinder bomber (both based on the failed Tu-98 Backfin)?

Tysbin had its own design based on the NM-1- the RSR:

http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/stuff/Bask/mode...ybin_rsr_2.jpg

Rob

Thanks...
IIRC the Ruskies built something similiar to
the XB70 though smaller, I'm sorry I couldn't
find an online ref. and it was obviously not
deployed, it may be rumor. I'll reiterate,
"may have had something better".
Regards
Ken

Rob Arndt wrote:
snip


Wasn't it the fastest postwar bomber until the XB-70 came along???

Rob


You could have omitted "postwar" since it beat anything before for
speed.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

You are correct. By the time the B-58 became operational the Russian radar
and missile defense systems improved to the point that high altitude, mach
2, attacks would have been suicide. The operational tactics changed to high
subsonic low altitude attack which made the mach 2 capability of the B-58
relatively unusable for combat. All the design features necessary for mach
2 flight such as the narrow fuselage made it impractical to add terrain
avoidance radar for IFR low altitude.

We practiced our low altitude high speed tactics in Oil Burner routes (now
Olive Branch) at 600 knots on the deck. Great sport.

--

Darrell R. Schmidt
B-58 Hustler History: (see below)
http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/


wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi Darrel

Darrell S wrote:
If you want to see and read more about the Hustler, click on
the link to my B-58 web site, below.
Don't forget to sign the guest book. The More B-58 Pictures Annex link
takes you to 3 more pages of pictures and text.
Darrell R. Schmidt
B-58 Hustler History: (see below)
http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/

Here's another interesting link,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-58_Hustler

As I understand it, the B58 was a high
speed - high altitude bomber that entered
service about Mar/15/1960, with nil stealth
capability. Gary Power's U2 was shot down
May/1/1960, and had some stealth paint,
that the Ruskies managed to circumvent.
So 2 months after entering service, the
B58 became a *low altitude penetration*
bomber, with enough range for a one
way trip into the USSR, effectively
rendering it a kamikaze bomber.
I think the crews knew that and it's their
courage that helped keep us safe during
the transition to ICBM's.

IMO it was as sexy as anything that flew
but it was not a good warplane because
it was difficult to adapt, while the B52
could carry stand-off weapons and make
it home, though in hindsight, it filled a
vital deterrence gap in the early 1960's,
that was equivalent to the B52 swarm,
depending on gravity bombs.
Regards
Ken

Darrell

We couldn't catch you but in a front quarter attack we ran a Pk of
about 98%. F-89J and MB-1 Atomic Air to Air Rocket.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````

On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 10:03:39 -0700, "Darrell S"
wrote:

You are correct. By the time the B-58 became operational the Russian radar
and missile defense systems improved to the point that high altitude, mach
2, attacks would have been suicide. The operational tactics changed to high
subsonic low altitude attack which made the mach 2 capability of the B-58
relatively unusable for combat. All the design features necessary for mach
2 flight such as the narrow fuselage made it impractical to add terrain
avoidance radar for IFR low altitude.

We practiced our low altitude high speed tactics in Oil Burner routes (now
Olive Branch) at 600 knots on the deck. Great sport.

Aha! The good old Scorpion. We were part of a huge simulated invasion of
the West Coast of the U.S. one night. B-47s, B-52s, and B-58s went up into
Canada, then West to the Pacific Ocean, about 500 miles off shore. Then we
all headed inbound. Only ADC "Trusted Agents" were aware we were really
"friendlies" and just testing ADC capability to detect and intercept. We
were at sub-sonic optimum altitude and about 50 miles from our planned point
to accelerate to mach 2 and climb to 50,000' when my DSO (Defensive Systems
Officer) detected a fighter interceptor's radar pinging from our forward
left position. We had enough fuel to start mach 2 early so I quickly
started to accelerate and climb. The fighter wasn't ready for our more than
doubled speed and fell well behind us. We coasted inland just south of San
Francisco and turned south down the San Joaquin (sp) valley to Yuma, AZ
where we came out of supersonic speeds and altitudes. Never saw hide nor
hair of any fighters.

--

Darrell R. Schmidt
B-58 Hustler History: (see below)
http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/


"Big John" wrote in message
...
Darrell

We couldn't catch you but in a front quarter attack we ran a Pk of
about 98%. F-89J and MB-1 Atomic Air to Air Rocket.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````

On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 10:03:39 -0700, "Darrell S"
wrote:

You are correct. By the time the B-58 became operational the Russian
radar
and missile defense systems improved to the point that high altitude, mach
2, attacks would have been suicide. The operational tactics changed to
high
subsonic low altitude attack which made the mach 2 capability of the B-58
relatively unusable for combat. All the design features necessary for
mach
2 flight such as the narrow fuselage made it impractical to add terrain
avoidance radar for IFR low altitude.

We practiced our low altitude high speed tactics in Oil Burner routes (now
Olive Branch) at 600 knots on the deck. Great sport.

Darrell

Flew the F-89D, H and J at Hamilton (plus the F2H3 with Navy) '53 to
'60.

I was the guy who developed and got approved by ADC to use the head on
attack.Scared a lot of people when I proposed it and laid out the
safety parameters involved. We would sit at 20K and GCI would vector
us to the target track and we would turn down track with no off set
from head on. The RO would lock on and at 20 seconds to go (indicated
on pilots Radar scope up front) We would just pull up and center the
dot (target) in ring and computer launched missile at correct time.

The guy your RO saw on his scope had probably fired one of his two
missles (we launched way out) and was being vectored to another
target.

Probably the same exercise, SAC sent an observer to Squadrons to
watch. He was a B-47 driver and said he never saw any of us when he
flew over San Fran.We were under his nose )

I flew first mission (got a kill) and came down and ran the NADAR
(tape cartridge that recorded our radar).

SAC observer asked how we were killing all the SAC birds and we gave
him our tactics. Shortly thereafter SAC went from high and fast to as
low as possible.

On your defensive Radar. It was optimized for the Russian Radar and
didn't do a good job on our radar (both GCI and Interceptor). Can't
remember any time my RO couldn't burn through and get a lock and we
got a kill.

The Genie and head on attack, saved the Scorpion as it was about as
fast as my daughter could peddle her scoter ) I got kills on all the
SAC birds and also U-2's (way up there but not very fast).

If you get around Houston I'll buy you a cool one and we can talk the
fine points of this Interceptor operation

Would have enjoyed flying the '58 but sometimes some have to do the
dirty work )

All the best

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````````````````````````


On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:15:49 -0700, "Darrell S"
wrote:

Aha! The good old Scorpion. We were part of a huge simulated invasion of
the West Coast of the U.S. one night. B-47s, B-52s, and B-58s went up into
Canada, then West to the Pacific Ocean, about 500 miles off shore. Then we
all headed inbound. Only ADC "Trusted Agents" were aware we were really
"friendlies" and just testing ADC capability to detect and intercept. We
were at sub-sonic optimum altitude and about 50 miles from our planned point
to accelerate to mach 2 and climb to 50,000' when my DSO (Defensive Systems
Officer) detected a fighter interceptor's radar pinging from our forward
left position. We had enough fuel to start mach 2 early so I quickly
started to accelerate and climb. The fighter wasn't ready for our more than
doubled speed and fell well behind us. We coasted inland just south of San
Francisco and turned south down the San Joaquin (sp) valley to Yuma, AZ
where we came out of supersonic speeds and altitudes. Never saw hide nor
hair of any fighters.

Not that its all that germane to topic but the image of B 58's on a
one-way to Moscow in Fail Safe (negative reverse images as I recall)
comes to mind. Guess it was known to more than just the
crews.....................Doc
m wrote:
Hi Darrel

Darrell S wrote:
If you want to see and read more about the Hustler, click on
the link to my B-58 web site, below.
Don't forget to sign the guest book. The More B-58 Pictures Annex link
takes you to 3 more pages of pictures and text.
Darrell R. Schmidt
B-58 Hustler History: (see below)
http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/

Here's another interesting link,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-58_Hustler

As I understand it, the B58 was a high
speed - high altitude bomber that entered
service about Mar/15/1960, with nil stealth
capability. Gary Power's U2 was shot down
May/1/1960, and had some stealth paint,
that the Ruskies managed to circumvent.
So 2 months after entering service, the
B58 became a *low altitude penetration*
bomber, with enough range for a one
way trip into the USSR, effectively
rendering it a kamikaze bomber.
I think the crews knew that and it's their
courage that helped keep us safe during
the transition to ICBM's.

IMO it was as sexy as anything that flew
but it was not a good warplane because
it was difficult to adapt, while the B52
could carry stand-off weapons and make
it home, though in hindsight, it filled a
vital deterrence gap in the early 1960's,
that was equivalent to the B52 swarm,
depending on gravity bombs.
Regards
Ken

wrote:
Not that its all that germane to topic but the image of B 58's on a
one-way to Moscow in Fail Safe (negative reverse images as I recall)
comes to mind. Guess it was known to more than just the
crews.....................Doc

I can add that the seating configuration in
the Fail-Safe Movies Vindicator bomber
isn't a B58, but the shots of the B58 take-
off with afterburner are awesome, and a
wee bit of the formation flying is super!
Ken

m wrote:
Hi Darrel

Darrell S wrote:
If you want to see and read more about the Hustler, click on
the link to my B-58 web site, below.
Don't forget to sign the guest book. The More B-58 Pictures Annex link
takes you to 3 more pages of pictures and text.
Darrell R. Schmidt
B-58 Hustler History: (see below)
http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/

Here's another interesting link,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-58_Hustler

As I understand it, the B58 was a high
speed - high altitude bomber that entered
service about Mar/15/1960, with nil stealth
capability. Gary Power's U2 was shot down
May/1/1960, and had some stealth paint,
that the Ruskies managed to circumvent.
So 2 months after entering service, the
B58 became a *low altitude penetration*
bomber, with enough range for a one
way trip into the USSR, effectively
rendering it a kamikaze bomber.
I think the crews knew that and it's their
courage that helped keep us safe during
the transition to ICBM's.

IMO it was as sexy as anything that flew
but it was not a good warplane because
it was difficult to adapt, while the B52
could carry stand-off weapons and make
it home, though in hindsight, it filled a
vital deterrence gap in the early 1960's,
that was equivalent to the B52 swarm,
depending on gravity bombs.
Regards
Ken

thats right, the pilots were side by side. I recall the fighters that
were scrambled in an attempt to shoot them down were Voodoos. I
remember them spiraling out of the sky after running out of fuel in the
film (carrying thier hapless pilots with them).................Doc
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
wrote:
Not that its all that germane to topic but the image of B 58's on a
one-way to Moscow in Fail Safe (negative reverse images as I recall)
comes to mind. Guess it was known to more than just the
crews.....................Doc

I can add that the seating configuration in
the Fail-Safe Movies Vindicator bomber
isn't a B58, but the shots of the B58 take-
off with afterburner are awesome, and a
wee bit of the formation flying is super!
Ken

m wrote:
Hi Darrel

Darrell S wrote:
If you want to see and read more about the Hustler, click on
the link to my B-58 web site, below.
Don't forget to sign the guest book. The More B-58 Pictures Annex link
takes you to 3 more pages of pictures and text.
Darrell R. Schmidt
B-58 Hustler History: (see below)
http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/

Here's another interesting link,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-58_Hustler

As I understand it, the B58 was a high
speed - high altitude bomber that entered
service about Mar/15/1960, with nil stealth
capability. Gary Power's U2 was shot down
May/1/1960, and had some stealth paint,
that the Ruskies managed to circumvent.
So 2 months after entering service, the
B58 became a *low altitude penetration*
bomber, with enough range for a one
way trip into the USSR, effectively
rendering it a kamikaze bomber.
I think the crews knew that and it's their
courage that helped keep us safe during
the transition to ICBM's.

IMO it was as sexy as anything that flew
but it was not a good warplane because
it was difficult to adapt, while the B52
could carry stand-off weapons and make
it home, though in hindsight, it filled a
vital deterrence gap in the early 1960's,
that was equivalent to the B52 swarm,
depending on gravity bombs.
Regards
Ken