wonders of VFR on top

Newps wrote in message ...
If that happens again just ask for a local IFR clearance like you were
going to do practice approaches while IFR. As soon as you get on top
you cancel.

I told him I only needed the clearance for 10 miles until I got on
top. He said he still needed to wait for Oakland center unless I just
wanted a clearance to VFR-on-top.

He then issued me the typical to VFR-OT clearance. Climb maint...if
not on top by...etc.

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...

I told him I only needed the clearance for 10 miles until I got on
top. He said he still needed to wait for Oakland center unless I just
wanted a clearance to VFR-on-top.


He was mistaken.

Robert M. Gary wrote:

Newps wrote in message ...

If that happens again just ask for a local IFR clearance like you were
going to do practice approaches while IFR. As soon as you get on top
you cancel.


I told him I only needed the clearance for 10 miles until I got on
top. He said he still needed to wait for Oakland center unless I just
wanted a clearance to VFR-on-top.

He then issued me the typical to VFR-OT clearance. Climb maint...if
not on top by...etc.

I've never used an IFR to VFR on top clearance. What are the subleties
of this? What is the clearance limit? What are the lost comm
procedures if the clearance limit isn't an airport? What if you don't
break out when you expect to find VFR?


Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

I've never used an IFR to VFR on top clearance. What are the subleties of
this?


VFR-on-top is an IFR procedure. When you're VFR-on-top you must adhere to
VFR cruising altitudes and you are responsible for separation, ATC will
continue to provide traffic advisories. You are still bound to your cleared
route.



What is the clearance limit?


Whatever fix you are cleared to. If "cleared to" was followed by
"VFR-on-top", you got a bad clearance.



What are the lost comm procedures if the clearance limit isn't an
airport?


While VFR-on-top? Continue the flight under VFR and land as soon as
practicable.



What if you don't break out when you expect to find VFR?


That's where the alternative instruction comes into play. Example; "climb
to and report reaching VFR-on-top, no tops reports, if not on top at 4000
maintain 4000 and advise". You'd report that you're still in the clouds and
continue to the clearance limit at 4000, or request an alternate clearance.

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:48:09 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

What are the lost comm procedures if the clearance limit isn't an
airport?


While VFR-on-top? Continue the flight under VFR and land as soon as
practicable.


What if you're unable like a deck below giving 1000' or less ceilings.
Do you then use the IFR lost comm procedures?

Since you're still on an IFR flight plan and need to adhere to IFR
rules, you shouldn't get hung out to dry if something goes wrong.

I remember learning about this, but forget.

z

Matt Whiting wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:

Newps wrote in message
...

If that happens again just ask for a local IFR clearance like you
were going to do practice approaches while IFR. As soon as you get
on top you cancel.



I told him I only needed the clearance for 10 miles until I got on
top. He said he still needed to wait for Oakland center unless I just
wanted a clearance to VFR-on-top.

He then issued me the typical to VFR-OT clearance. Climb maint...if
not on top by...etc.


I've never used an IFR to VFR on top clearance. What are the subleties
of this?

You just ask for an "IFR to VFR on top". This way we know that once in
VFR you will advise us and we will cancel your IFR and you will motor on
as a regular VFR flight.


What is the clearance limit?

That depends but we just give our own VOR and the route is vectors.

What are the lost comm
procedures if the clearance limit isn't an airport?

Pick an approach and land.


What if you don't
break out when you expect to find VFR?

You will be given an altitude that if you are not on top by you maintain
it and advise.

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:03:36 -0600, Newps
wrote:

You just ask for an "IFR to VFR on top". This way we know that once in
VFR you will advise us and we will cancel your IFR and you will motor on
as a regular VFR flight.

I think you're confusing VFR Over the Top with VFR On Top. VFR Over
the top is just like VFR - no IFR flight plan. On Top as I understand
it keeps your IFR flight plan in tact while operating in VFR
conditions. Basically the pilot is bound by both IFR and VFR regs but
must remain VFR.

I need to read up on this more, but this is what I remeber.

z

Newps wrote:



Matt Whiting wrote:

Robert M. Gary wrote:

Newps wrote in message
...

If that happens again just ask for a local IFR clearance like you
were going to do practice approaches while IFR. As soon as you get
on top you cancel.




I told him I only needed the clearance for 10 miles until I got on
top. He said he still needed to wait for Oakland center unless I just
wanted a clearance to VFR-on-top.

He then issued me the typical to VFR-OT clearance. Climb maint...if
not on top by...etc.



I've never used an IFR to VFR on top clearance. What are the
subleties of this?


You just ask for an "IFR to VFR on top". This way we know that once in
VFR you will advise us and we will cancel your IFR and you will motor on
as a regular VFR flight.

OK. Although, I assume you could just stay on the IFR flight plan,
though, right? If you plan to cancel, wouldn't asking for IFR to VFR
"over" the top be a more appropriate request? That clearly implies that
you plan to complete the flight under VFR.


Matt

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
m...

The other day I wanted to get a clearance to get above an overcast
while in cruise. When I asked for a clearance the controller said it
would be awhile because my destination was more than 500 miles away.


Did you request an IFR clearance to that destination?



He said he needed to get me a clearance all the way there even though
my intention was to cancel on top.


Did you tell him you intended to cancel once in VFR conditions above the
clouds?



The controller than mentioned that
he could issue me a clearance to VFR-on-top w/o the entire route
clearance. I did that and it worked perfectly. I learned something.


He could also give you an IFR clearance without the entire route clearance.
If you did cancel upon reaching VFR conditions above the clouds you were
never operating VFR-on-top.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message ink.net...
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
m...

The other day I wanted to get a clearance to get above an overcast
while in cruise. When I asked for a clearance the controller said it
would be awhile because my destination was more than 500 miles away.


Did you request an IFR clearance to that destination?

No, I said I need to pick up an IFR to climb above an overcast. He
asked me my dest. I told him. He said it would take 15 minutes or so
to get a clearance that far. I told him I would cancel on top. He said
it didn't make a difference he needed to get the clearance all the way
down. This was just south of SeaTac and I was going to California.


He said he needed to get me a clearance all the way there even though
my intention was to cancel on top.


Did you tell him you intended to cancel once in VFR conditions above the
clouds?

Yes




The controller than mentioned that
he could issue me a clearance to VFR-on-top w/o the entire route
clearance. I did that and it worked perfectly. I learned something.


He could also give you an IFR clearance without the entire route clearance.
If you did cancel upon reaching VFR conditions above the clouds you were
never operating VFR-on-top.

He gave me an IFR clearance "to VFR-on-top". He said that issuing the
clearance that way allowed him to not have to wait for the clearance
to go through Oakland Center (or whatever).