23 July OSH accident audio

Bob Gardner wrote:
My point was that listening to audio or viewing video does nothing to help
Joe Sixpack avoid similar accidents.


It's just curiosity.
You never look when you drive past an accident scene?

I beg to differ. Most pilots read about accidents as events that happen
in extreme circumstances or in far away places. A recording adds a
sense of familiarity and brings it much closer to home. We learn more
about our own vulnerabilities by identifying with the pilot and the
circumstances. I see nothing wrong with an audio recording unless it
has circumstances inappropriate or disrespectful of the deceased (ie
expletive language etc..). I don't see it as media sensationalization.
It is the real ATC recording with no commentaries or commercials. I
doubt a nonpilot would be able to make much sense out of the
recordings.





Bob Gardner wrote:
Reading about accidents helps pilots avoid the mistakes of others; seeing or
hearing accidents doesn't help anyone. How can we complain about media
sensationalizing airplane accidents when we have folks like John Smith doing
the same thing?

Bob Gardner

"john smith" wrote in message
...
00:01:15 minutes into the playback is when the accident occurred on 23
July

http://www.liveatc.net/.archive/kosh...2006-1330Z.mp3

Hey I know... let's not listen to it.
Instead let's lambaste the poster.
The reasons TO listen center around the male and female tower controllers
who I think did a wonderful job handling the traffic that they were faced
with. What you will hear is how the tower closed the runway, redirected
landing 27 traffic to 36, then closed the airport, had pattern traffic hold
in the pattern, additional traffic hold east of the airport, more traffic
holding SW of the airport, more holding over the lake and or sent them back
outbound for the RIPON arrival. Once 36 was re-opened they also had to deal
with IFR arrivals from Chicago Center. The tower guys are to be commended
for what they accomplished in very short order and with a high degree of
calm and professional mannerisms.

What you will not hear are the FISKE controllers. That's the archive that
needs to be obtained, posted, and critiqued. It's my understanding from
people that were involved in the multi-hour hold that they were not informed
of the accident, not given any reason for the runway closure, nor were they
told when they could be expected to be released from the hold. Promises of
"we'll get you down as fast as we can" and "we'll get you in, just keep
holding" were common but no estimations of how long they'd be holding were
given. A small amount of info would have saved much frustration.


Attention all aircraft inbound from RIPON or holding at FISKE, Green Lake,
or Rush Lake.
The Oshkosh airport is closed due to an accident.
There are aircraft holding at several locations and altitudes east of the
airport, once the airport is open we need to clear the airspace by getting
those aircraft down first.
We do not know when we will be able to release you from the hold.
If you are unprepared or unable to hold for an undetermined length of time,
we suggest leaving the hold for an alternate airport.

Easy announcement. Although every pilot must determine his own comfort
level and has the ability to "bug out" when it comes to holding with minimal
information about the reason or the length of the hold, the FISKE
controllers could have provided information that would have decreased the
frustration level and added a level of understanding.

Jim

"Jim Burns" wrote in message ...
: Hey I know... let's not listen to it.
: Instead let's lambaste the poster.
: The reasons TO listen center around the male and female tower controllers
: who I think did a wonderful job handling the traffic that they were faced
: with. What you will hear is how the tower closed the runway, redirected
: landing 27 traffic to 36, then closed the airport, had pattern traffic hold
: in the pattern, additional traffic hold east of the airport, more traffic
: holding SW of the airport, more holding over the lake and or sent them back
: outbound for the RIPON arrival. Once 36 was re-opened they also had to deal
: with IFR arrivals from Chicago Center. The tower guys are to be commended
: for what they accomplished in very short order and with a high degree of
: calm and professional mannerisms.
:
: What you will not hear are the FISKE controllers. That's the archive that
: needs to be obtained, posted, and critiqued. It's my understanding from
: people that were involved in the multi-hour hold that they were not informed
: of the accident, not given any reason for the runway closure, nor were they
: told when they could be expected to be released from the hold. Promises of
: "we'll get you down as fast as we can" and "we'll get you in, just keep
: holding" were common but no estimations of how long they'd be holding were
: given. A small amount of info would have saved much frustration.
:
:
: Attention all aircraft inbound from RIPON or holding at FISKE, Green Lake,
: or Rush Lake.
: The Oshkosh airport is closed due to an accident.
: There are aircraft holding at several locations and altitudes east of the
: airport, once the airport is open we need to clear the airspace by getting
: those aircraft down first.
: We do not know when we will be able to release you from the hold.
: If you are unprepared or unable to hold for an undetermined length of time,
: we suggest leaving the hold for an alternate airport.
:
: Easy announcement. Although every pilot must determine his own comfort
: level and has the ability to "bug out" when it comes to holding with minimal
: information about the reason or the length of the hold, the FISKE
: controllers could have provided information that would have decreased the
: frustration level and added a level of understanding.
:
: Jim
:
:
:

Now that I think about it, I do recall hearing the ripon controllers say, once anyway, that there was an accident and a
runway was closed. That was about the extent of it however...

Now that I think about it, I do recall hearing the ripon controllers say, once anyway, that there was an accident and a
runway was closed. That was about the extent of it however...

I was in that cluster-f*ck of a "hold" around first Green, and then
Rush, lakes, and no controller explained anything during our time in
that blender.

It looked like a scene from "Hell's Angels" -- and it all could have
been made MUCH better simply by a controller saying "Guys, there's been
an accident." All of the angry, frustrated folks (who were literally
SHOUTING at one another on the FISK frequency -- a first, believe me)
would have instantly cooled their jets, and a whole bunch of them would
have diverted to another airport.

Instead, FISK just kept saying "it'll be a bit longer" -- and the swarm
just kept growing and growing. Some guys were saying that they held
in that race track for two HOURS. I held for around an hour, and it
was simply nuts.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

This link was not found. (404 error).

Got an alternate link to it?

Chris G.

john smith wrote:
00:01:15 minutes into the playback is when the accident occurred on 23
July

http://www.liveatc.net/.archive/kosh...2006-1330Z.mp3

"Chris G." wrote:

This link was not found. (404 error).

Got an alternate link to it?

LiveATC's archive server is down for the next few days due to a major
upgrade. Hopefully the archive files from these dates will be preserved
when the new server goes online.

Check back later in the week, or perhaps over the weekend.

--
Peter

"Chris G." wrote:

This link was not found. (404 error).

Got an alternate link to it?

On second thought, Chris, someone posted an edited version of this clip
over in the LiveATC audio clip forum. I grabbed the clip and uploaded it
to Spread-it.com. This link will be available for two weeks from today
(Spread-it's hosting policy).

http://www5.spread-it.com/dl.php?id=...ec1f3432436b10

As was pointed out earlier in this thread, this is not sensationalistic
audio of the pilot's final words, but rather a testament to the
professionalism of the ATC during that tragedy.


--
Peter

Peter,

As was pointed out earlier in this thread, this is not sensationalistic
audio of the pilot's final words, but rather a testament to the
professionalism of the ATC during that tragedy.


Actually, the exact opposite was pointed out in the thread: That it was a
testament to the non-professionalism of ATC during the tragedy.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

As was pointed out earlier in this thread, this is not sensationalistic
audio of the pilot's final words, but rather a testament to the
professionalism of the ATC during that tragedy.


Actually, the exact opposite was pointed out in the thread: That it was a
testament to the non-professionalism of ATC during the tragedy.

Nobody said that they were anything but professional at the moment of the
accident. The other discussion was that they did not explain why everyone
was put in a hold.
--
Jim in NC