23 July OSH accident audio

In article ,
"RST Engineering" wrote:

As for not announcing that the incident/accident was fatal, not a problem.
Simply say "accident" and be done with it. Now we know it isn't airport
overload.

How about this:
on ATIS: "Oshkosh Airport is closed indefinitely. All aircraft are
advised to land at other airports. A NOTAM stating the airport closure
has been issued. When the airport is re-opened, the NOTAM will be
cancelled. The RIPON Arrival Procedure will remain in effect following
the reopening of the airport."

FISKE Controllers: "Oshkosh Airport is closed. Any aircraft inbound on
the RIPON Arrival Procedure are instructed to land at another airport
until the Oshkosh Airport reopens. Any aircraft proceeding beyond FISKE
will not be allowed to land at Oshkosh."

OSH Tower: "The Oshkosh Airport is closed indefinitely. Any aircraft
landing while the airport is closed will be subject to FAA enforcement
actions. You are instructed to depart the Oshkosh Class D Airspace and
remain clear. A NOTAM advising of the airport closure has been issued.
It is recommended that all aircraft desiring to land Oshkosh divert to
an outlying airport and monitor the NOTAM for cancellation and reopening
of the Oshkosh Airport."

"john smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"RST Engineering" wrote:

As for not announcing that the incident/accident was fatal, not a
problem.
Simply say "accident" and be done with it. Now we know it isn't airport
overload.


FISKE Controllers: "Oshkosh Airport is closed. Any aircraft inbound on
the RIPON Arrival Procedure are instructed to land at another airport
until the Oshkosh Airport reopens. Any aircraft proceeding beyond FISKE
will not be allowed to land at Oshkosh."

I disagree with this one. If you don't go to another airport, you are
disobeying a direct order from ATC. I prefer to give the pilot the option
of the Rush Lake hold, the Green Lake hold, or diversion at the pilot's
option. All questions of the nature "how long will the hold be" are
answered the same way, "the hold is indefinite ... there has been an
accident at Oshkosh airport."

THe procedure is Fisk, not FISKE.

And I'd have Fisk ask the first ten or twenty aircraft in the ensuing open
field lineup to say words on the aircraft's radio that the field is open.
THat way those who have diverted and are listening on a handheld below the
ATIS line of sight will have a clue that the airport has reopened. Line of
sight (radio horizon) for an aircraft at 1000 AGL is about 45 miles.

Jim

Jim

How? What changes in your evaluation from "hold there" to "hold there
because of an accident"?

Each pilot will make their own determination. What changes in =my= view
is that after an accident, there would likely be cleanup and
investigation, and the runway may be closed for a long time. I would
probably choose to divert if a circuit or two doesn't clear it up.
Other reasons for holds are more ephemeral.

It is true, I could make the wrong decision, but it would be =my=
decision. I value that.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Well said, and it has an added plus. The more pilots that take the
"accident announcement" to mean that the hold will be longer than they are
comfortable with, the more pilots that may leave the congested airspace and
resultantly open up more room and a larger safety factor for not only
themselves, but for those pilots who decide to stay in the hold.

It's a win for those who want to leave, it's a win for those who want to
stay, and it's a win for the controllers.

Jim


"Jose" wrote in message
. ..
How? What changes in your evaluation from "hold there" to "hold there
because of an accident"?

Each pilot will make their own determination. What changes in =my= view
is that after an accident, there would likely be cleanup and
investigation, and the runway may be closed for a long time. I would
probably choose to divert if a circuit or two doesn't clear it up.
Other reasons for holds are more ephemeral.

It is true, I could make the wrong decision, but it would be =my=
decision. I value that.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.