GA airport in Paris

On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 21:25:08 -0400, Owen wrote in
:

Try Lognes-Emerainville (LFPL). It's a
beautiful and friendly little field not to far away from Paris,

I stopped in one day, and had a chat with the AriFrance club members.
They were very friendly and helpful. They did caution, that the
locals use French on the radio however.

Here are some links with photos:
http://fly.simvol.org/indexus.php?te...s/lognesus.php
http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=main/airpho/lfpl.htm
http://66.218.71.231/language/transl...l=us&fr=fp-top

I wasn't able to find a detailed listing like one might find on
AirNav.com.

Larry,

They did caution, that the
locals use French on the radio however.


They do that all over France...

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Hi and thanks!

700 m no problem. Went in and out of a 450 meter one the other day with
runway to spare, so that should be fine!

:-)

Is there a control tower at LFPL?
If so, they will talk to me in English, right?
If not, are French pilots required to know English, so they will understand
me when I call?

I remember once several years ago I was flying VFR past Paris to the west,
when I didn't get any more comms from Paris information.

I heard other pilots in French however, so I tried to call and ask if anyone
could hear my transmission.

Total silence....then loads of talk in French again.
I tried this several times with no reply, so I ended up squawking 7600 and
continuing to my destination.
When I called ATC they where cool about it, and told me that Paris info had
closed for the day at 1800 LT.

Funny thing that nobody seemed to care about my calls though. Made me think
the French don't know English very well....

Oh well,

Frode


"Owen" skrev i melding ...
Frode Berg wrote:

Hi!

I might be flying to Paris with my son next week.
Never landed near Paris to go to town (flown past a few times) so I'm not
really familiar with the airports there.

Which one is the typical GA one?
I need AVGAS, and it would be nice if it's easy to get to downtown Paris.

Thanks for any tips!

Le Bourget is a great field and ideally located closer to Paris than
CDG/LFPG, with RER service to boot. Unfortunately they require special
permission (!) for VFR and rarely/if ever give that permission. Even if
you
go IFR, fees /handling agent expenses/etc. are very high. A shame, but
ADP
caters to airlines and big pocketbooks, not personal GA aviators. Has a
very cool museum though.

Can you land in 700 m easily? Try Lognes-Emerainville (LFPL). It's a
beautiful and friendly little field not to far away from Paris, out toward
Disneyland. Lognes has RER service to Paris and you can walk to the
station,
less than about a 2000 m stroll. For Handling fees, you should get change
back your ?10 note.

Toussus Le Noble (LFPN) has longer runways but may a bit more expensive
and
worse, I don't think the transportation situation is as good there.

Please let us know where you end up going and what you experience. Don't
get
to hear much about flying in Europe these days.

On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:17:31 +0200, "Frode Berg"
wrote:

I heard other pilots in French however, so I tried to call and ask if anyone
could hear my transmission.

Many years ago, I visited Montreal, and discovered that whenever I
addressed a local in French, he replied in English.

More recently, again in Montreal, I found that a great change had
taken place. Now, whenever I addressed a local in English, he replied
in French.

It's not that French-speakers don't know English; it's just that they
now prefer to speak French. I'll bet that more French pilots
understood your transmission than would be the case for a
French-speaking pilot at an airport in the U.S.

It's only that they'd rather have you crash than break the rule that
French is the superior language for all purposes.

(Americans are not nearly so arrogant--only ignorant. We genuinely
don't know the other guy's language.)



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

Cub Driver wrote:

On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:17:31 +0200, "Frode Berg"
wrote:

I heard other pilots in French however, so I tried to call and ask if anyone
could hear my transmission.

Many years ago, I visited Montreal, and discovered that whenever I
addressed a local in French, he replied in English.

More recently, again in Montreal, I found that a great change had
taken place. Now, whenever I addressed a local in English, he replied
in French.

It's not that French-speakers don't know English; it's just that they
now prefer to speak French. I'll bet that more French pilots
understood your transmission than would be the case for a
French-speaking pilot at an airport in the U.S.

It's only that they'd rather have you crash than break the rule that
French is the superior language for all purposes.

(Americans are not nearly so arrogant--only ignorant. We genuinely
don't know the other guy's language.)

Huh? So if someone prefers to speak in their language they are being 'arrogant'
or think their language is the "superior language for all purposes?' Reality
Check/ Tip: Even if someone took some classes back in school and speak second
etc. languages a bit, that doesn't mean that they necessarily feel comfortable
speaking it, particularly to a stranger who may talk fast, have a different
accent then they learned, etc. That is even much, much more the case for
conversations with a lot of jargon, e.g. pilot talk. Being arrogant would be
going to another land where another language is spoken natively and thinking that
your own foreign language is so superior that natives should speak it, even if
they can't or can't well. Don't take my word for it, learn another language and
find that out for yourself.

In article , Owen wrote:

Cub Driver wrote:

On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:17:31 +0200, "Frode Berg"
wrote:

I heard other pilots in French however, so I tried to call and ask if
anyone
could hear my transmission.

Many years ago, I visited Montreal, and discovered that whenever I
addressed a local in French, he replied in English.

More recently, again in Montreal, I found that a great change had
taken place. Now, whenever I addressed a local in English, he replied
in French.

It's not that French-speakers don't know English; it's just that they
now prefer to speak French. I'll bet that more French pilots
understood your transmission than would be the case for a
French-speaking pilot at an airport in the U.S.

It's only that they'd rather have you crash than break the rule that
French is the superior language for all purposes.

(Americans are not nearly so arrogant--only ignorant. We genuinely
don't know the other guy's language.)

Huh? So if someone prefers to speak in their language they are being
'arrogant'
or think their language is the "superior language for all purposes?' Reality
Check/ Tip: Even if someone took some classes back in school and speak second
etc. languages a bit, that doesn't mean that they necessarily feel
comfortable
speaking it, particularly to a stranger who may talk fast, have a different
accent then they learned, etc. That is even much, much more the case for
conversations with a lot of jargon, e.g. pilot talk. Being arrogant would
be
going to another land where another language is spoken natively and thinking
that
your own foreign language is so superior that natives should speak it, even
if
they can't or can't well. Don't take my word for it, learn another language
and
find that out for yourself.

Owen, are you saying that pilots in other countries are not required to
learn English to get their license?

Check/ Tip: Even if someone took some classes back in school and speak second
etc. languages a bit, that doesn't mean that they necessarily feel comfortable
speaking it, particularly to a stranger who may talk fast, have a different

I think this is not about arrogance at all. I've been learning
foreign languages all my life, and spent decent amount of time
living in France. My overall impression is that an average 20-40
year old person that has some kind of higher education can communicate
in English on a level that is sufficient for a basic everyday
information exchange. Yes, far from perfect, but sufficient.

The problem I believe is in a typical French perfectionism: people are
so disgusted and embarrassed by their own self-perceived poor performance
that speaking English becomes a dreadful ordeal.

Not willing to do this for you in a shop or in a post office is one thing,
but ignoring you on the air is completely different. In aviation, communication
is vital, and I believe that not willing to go a little bit out of your way
to help the other guy hoping that someone else might do it, or just simply
ignoring the situation as a nuisance, is not acceptable.

This may be a little far-fetched analogy, but imagine hearing some
really really thick Asian or German accent -- barely intelligible -- on
the air here in the States. Would you -- even for a moment -- consider
ignoring the guy simply on the grounds that you'd find it very annoying
trying to figure out what he's saying, and you will probably have to repeat
yourself a few times before he understands your reply?

So, in essence, my point is: responding to communications is not about
courtesy or doing a favor; it's about safety, and the only legitimate
reason for not doing it would be if you can't, i.e. genuinely do not
understand the transmission at all.



Andrey

On 2006-08-09 12:23, Cub Driver wrote:
On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:17:31 +0200, "Frode Berg"
wrote:


I heard other pilots in French however, so I tried to call and ask if anyone
could hear my transmission.


Many years ago, I visited Montreal, and discovered that whenever I
addressed a local in French, he replied in English.

More recently, again in Montreal, I found that a great change had
taken place. Now, whenever I addressed a local in English, he replied
in French.

It's not that French-speakers don't know English; it's just that they
now prefer to speak French. I'll bet that more French pilots
understood your transmission than would be the case for a
French-speaking pilot at an airport in the U.S.

It's only that they'd rather have you crash than break the rule that
French is the superior language for all purposes.

(Americans are not nearly so arrogant--only ignorant. We genuinely
don't know the other guy's language.)



-- all the best, Dan Ford


I heard a pilot from my club describe a strange event during a trip he
and some friends made to France some years ago, when due to an accident
at their intended destination, they were vectored to a smaller military
field nearby.

The controller at the alternate field never responded to their radio
calls, until the pilot got a passenger who spoke french to make the
contact; once the controller had acknowledged them, the conversation
could continue in english.

/Rolf

Frode,

If not, are French pilots required to know English, so they will understand
me when I call?


No, not at all. But so close to Paris, it shouldn't be a problem.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:17:31 +0200, "Frode Berg"
wrote in :

Made me think the French don't know English very well....

Not near as well as the Dutch.