CRJ crash at KLEX:

In article ,
"John Gaquin" wrote:

"Ron Lee" wrote in message

James is correct. FAA diagram he

I think not. The google aerial photos are the older reference, taken some
3-4 years ago. My interpretation is this: Since that time, the threshold
of Rwy 22 has been displaced some 600 ft SW, leaving what appears to be
designated as an overrun for Rwy 04. It appears the taxiway leading to it
from the end of Rwy 22 has been closed. The fed taxi chart appears to only
sow those areas of pavement open for use. I can't vouch for the
administrative points, but the photos and diagrams bear out my theory.

Remember that while the threshhold is displaced, the pavement behind the
displacement (original runway threshhold) is still available for takeoff.

"john smith" wrote in message news:jsmith-


Remember that while the threshhold is displaced, the pavement behind the
displacement (original runway threshhold) is still available for takeoff.

Only if so designated by the airport authority or FAA iaw applicable
policies. Recent aerial video of the airport shot since the crash show that
the displaced paved area of the approach end of Rwy 22 is painted with
yellow chevron striping. Iirc, this indicates that the area is NOT usable
for taxi, takeoff, or landing.

john smith wrote:

In article ,
James Robinson wrote:

(Ron Lee) wrote:

"Aluckyguess" wrote:

Looking at that diagram I see how easy it would of been to do what
they did. WOW


Here's a diagram dated 08/03/2006:



Don't agree with you Barry. They should have seen that you taxi
rightish from the terminal past Rwy 26 then either one (apparently
from pics) of two taxiways to Rwy 22. Even I can do that.

The diagram doesn't show the additional taxiway that is apparent in
the photographs

News reports quote another pilot as saying that old right-hand
taxiway had a recently-erected barrier across it. He said it was a
complete surprise when he came across it the first time.

The diagram has not been updated to show the newly added 600 foot
extension and connecting taxiway.

Here is a link to a diagram of the changes that were made:

http://tinyurl.com/zybuf

Here is a link to a photo of the old arrangement from Yahoo maps:

http://tinyurl.com/qknmg

As you can see, A-8 would take you to the end of runway 26, and A-7 would
take you 500 feet from the end of the runway.

Looking at the diagram in the above link, plus recent news pictures, the
changes have not extended the runway at the north end, but have in fact
diplaced the threshold by 400 feet or so. With the displaced threshold,
the old taxiway A-8 has been closed, and therefore doesn't show on the
diagram referenced in the earlier post.

These aren't super clear, but you can see how the runway has been
repainted to reflect the displaced threshold:

http://www.wcpo.com/news/2006/local/...lane/ntsb2.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/h99og

Thanks James. Your diagram makes it clear, but the photos show that A-8
still exists. Is it blocked off with barracades as other posters have
noted?

john smith wrote:

Thanks James. Your diagram makes it clear, but the photos show that A-8
still exists. Is it blocked off with barracades as other posters have
noted?

I don't know from personal experience, but the news reports on the day of
the accident included the following quote:

" The construction changes momentarily confused veteran pilot Lowell Wiley
two days before the Comair crash. He nosed his plane down the same taxiway
that he had taken for years until hitting a barricade.

"It was a total surprise," said Wiley, who adjusted course and got onto the
correct runway. He now understands why the Comair pilot might have headed
down a runway 1,500 feet (450 meters) too short to make a proper takeoff. "

James Robinson wrote:

john smith wrote:

Thanks James. Your diagram makes it clear, but the photos show that A-8
still exists. Is it blocked off with barracades as other posters have
noted?

I don't know from personal experience, but the news reports on the day of
the accident included the following quote:

" The construction changes momentarily confused veteran pilot Lowell Wiley
two days before the Comair crash. He nosed his plane down the same taxiway
that he had taken for years until hitting a barricade.

"It was a total surprise," said Wiley, who adjusted course and got onto the
correct runway. He now understands why the Comair pilot might have headed
down a runway 1,500 feet (450 meters) too short to make a proper takeoff. "

That comment does not make sense. To get to Rwy 22 you must cross Rwy
26 totally. Whether you take Taxiway A7 or A8 seems irrelevant. If
you are stopped after crossing Rwy 26 by a barricade on A8, why would
you think, "OK, let's forget Rwy 26 and just use this one"?

Ron Lee

In article ,
(Ron Lee) wrote:

"It was a total surprise," said Wiley, who adjusted course and got onto the
correct runway. He now understands why the Comair pilot might have headed
down a runway 1,500 feet (450 meters) too short to make a proper takeoff. "

That comment does not make sense. To get to Rwy 22 you must cross Rwy
26 totally. Whether you take Taxiway A7 or A8 seems irrelevant. If
you are stopped after crossing Rwy 26 by a barricade on A8, why would
you think, "OK, let's forget Rwy 26 and just use this one"?

Remember a few of the previous postings.
Had they not been there recently, they would have remembered the taxiway
ending at the runway with the appropriate greater than 90 degree turn to
the runway. Exactly the situation they found themselves in Sunday
morning.

Ron Lee wrote in message ...
James Robinson wrote:

john smith wrote:

Thanks James. Your diagram makes it clear, but the photos show that A-8
still exists. Is it blocked off with barracades as other posters have
noted?

I don't know from personal experience, but the news reports on the day of
the accident included the following quote:

" The construction changes momentarily confused veteran pilot Lowell Wiley
two days before the Comair crash. He nosed his plane down the same taxiway
that he had taken for years until hitting a barricade.

"It was a total surprise," said Wiley, who adjusted course and got onto
the
correct runway. He now understands why the Comair pilot might have headed
down a runway 1,500 feet (450 meters) too short to make a proper takeoff.
"

That comment does not make sense. To get to Rwy 22 you must cross Rwy
26 totally. Whether you take Taxiway A7 or A8 seems irrelevant. If
you are stopped after crossing Rwy 26 by a barricade on A8, why would
you think, "OK, let's forget Rwy 26

ITYM "Rwy 22"

and just use this one"?

- Rick

john smith wrote in message ...
Thanks James. Your diagram makes it clear, but the photos show that A-8
still exists. Is it blocked off with barracades as other posters have
noted?

One article had a very tiny picture that described the orange and white
barricades, but you really couldn't see them, and there was not a larger
picture available.

- Rick

James Robinson wrote in message ...
john smith wrote:

In article ,
James Robinson wrote:

(Ron Lee) wrote:

"Aluckyguess" wrote:

Looking at that diagram I see how easy it would of been to do what
they did. WOW


Here's a diagram dated 08/03/2006:



Don't agree with you Barry. They should have seen that you taxi
rightish from the terminal past Rwy 26 then either one (apparently
from pics) of two taxiways to Rwy 22. Even I can do that.

The diagram doesn't show the additional taxiway that is apparent in
the photographs

News reports quote another pilot as saying that old right-hand
taxiway had a recently-erected barrier across it. He said it was a
complete surprise when he came across it the first time.

The diagram has not been updated to show the newly added 600 foot
extension and connecting taxiway.

Here is a link to a diagram of the changes that were made:

http://tinyurl.com/zybuf

Here is a link to a photo of the old arrangement from Yahoo maps:

http://tinyurl.com/qknmg

As you can see, A-8 would take you to the end of runway 26,

ITYM "runway 22."

and A-7 would
take you 500 feet from the end of the runway.

Looking at the diagram in the above link, plus recent news pictures, the
changes have not extended the runway at the north end,

I think many have missed that point.

but have in fact
diplaced the threshold by 400 feet or so. With the displaced threshold,
the old taxiway A-8 has been closed, and therefore doesn't show on the
diagram referenced in the earlier post.

These aren't super clear, but you can see how the runway has been
repainted to reflect the displaced threshold:

http://www.wcpo.com/news/2006/local/...lane/ntsb2.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/h99og

- Rick