End of Season Sunset Warning for SSA-OLC Participants

588 wrote:
I can't be sure from the cover photo that there is not a set of numbers
placed on the fuselage, perhaps a little above the equator.

Yes, that must be it. Funny how you can see the Discus 2 lettering just
fine, though...

What interests me more is the question: has Eric just done a ribbon-cut
pass? There is SOMETHING hanging below the cockpit of his Discus that
looks like a ribbon draped over both sides of the nose.

Might be some sort of secret thermal detection gear...

Doug Haluza a écrit :

Now as far as OLC goes, there is no sporting aspect to the N-number
placement. Putting N-numbers on the gear doors does not provide any
meaningful competitive advantage. And it does not show up in the flight
log. So we would not be concerned with this in the OLC.

Is there a sporting aspect to the presence of night lights ? Does it
provide any competitive advantage ? Or does it show up in the flight log ???

--
Denis

R. Parce que ça rompt le cours normal de la conversation !!!
Q. Pourquoi ne faut-il pas répondre au-dessus de la question ?

Denis wrote:
Doug Haluza a écrit :

Now as far as OLC goes, there is no sporting aspect to the N-number
placement. Putting N-numbers on the gear doors does not provide any
meaningful competitive advantage. And it does not show up in the flight
log. So we would not be concerned with this in the OLC.

Is there a sporting aspect to the presence of night lights ? Does it
provide any competitive advantage ? Or does it show up in the flight log ???

--
Denis

R. Parce que ça rompt le cours normal de la conversation !!!
Q. Pourquoi ne faut-il pas répondre au-dessus de la question ?

The flying past sunset does give a competitive advantage, since it
extends the length of the day, and therefore the distance covered. And
it does show up in the flight log. Since night lighting is very rare on
gliders, the pilot needs to make a note on the OLC claim if the glider
was equipped with lights.

Now as for whether we should allow night flight in gliders equipped
with lights, FAI has not yet covered this in the Sporting Code. It
still permits night flight with lights. Obviously, night cross country
in gliders is very dangerous, due to the possibility of an outlanding
in a dark field, so I hope we don't have to wait until someone dies to
address this.

Ramy wrote:
Doug, the sunset rule may have been on the books, but not on olc rules
until recently.

Violating FARs is unsportsmanlike. An IGC file provides definitive
proof of the time and 3D location of the sailplane. The OLC has always
stated or implied that one must adhere to local flight regulations.
Doing anything else is unsportsmanlike.

You decided to enforce it retroactively, which is unfair to say the
least. I guess this is one way to win a contest, when someone is
catching up - remove their flights...

The OLC software developers *could* create various validation schemes,
but have instead chosen to provide a method for peers to submit a
complaint. The SSA put out a statement regarding the FARs sometime
last fall, in Dennis' column in "Soaring" if I recollect correctly.

There have been several statements made through various channels in the
last year about the need for peer review of flying habits. Now,
finally, Doug has found the time to go over claims made this year to
identify some of the more obvious ones.

simple fact is that OLC was great until SSA took over. It is simply a
shame the way it has been administered. You managed to upset your most
loyal promoters and contestants.

What is a shame, is that some participants make what they feel are
"harmless" violations of regulations, then make a record of this
behavior available online.

It is a shame that one pilot will choose to open the spoilers and land
before sunset while another continues to climb in that last evening
thermal, watch the sun set, then glide another 50 miles - and then
claim the distance in a sporting competition.

-Tom

5Z wrote:

Violating FARs is unsportsmanlike. An IGC file provides definitive
proof of the time and 3D location of the sailplane. The OLC has always
stated or implied that one must adhere to local flight regulations.
Doing anything else is unsportsmanlike.

So what about FAR Part 91 Sec. 91.119(c) which keeps get violated on
the ridges? Just look at the top scores in olc, there are some definite
proof there as well.

Ramy wrote:

So what about FAR Part 91 Sec. 91.119(c) which keeps get violated on
the ridges? Just look at the top scores in olc, there are some definite
proof there as well.

What about it? Do you suggest we dedicate our resources to policing
that? It surely would not be nearly so simple to avoid, nor to
monitor, as a time or altitude bust.

Sounds like sour grapes to me.


Jack

588 wrote:

Sounds like sour grapes to me.


Jack

Precisely, as sour as enforcing sunset time. This is exactly my point.

Ramy

Yeah but Ramy those ridge flights on break one not three FAR's

Al

Ramy wrote:
5Z wrote:

Violating FARs is unsportsmanlike. An IGC file provides definitive
proof of the time and 3D location of the sailplane. The OLC has always
stated or implied that one must adhere to local flight regulations.
Doing anything else is unsportsmanlike.

So what about FAR Part 91 Sec. 91.119(c) which keeps get violated on
the ridges? Just look at the top scores in olc, there are some definite
proof there as well.

Al, I am not aware of any flight which broke three FAR's.

wrote:
Yeah but Ramy those ridge flights on break one not three FAR's

Al

Ramy wrote:
5Z wrote:

Violating FARs is unsportsmanlike. An IGC file provides definitive
proof of the time and 3D location of the sailplane. The OLC has always
stated or implied that one must adhere to local flight regulations.
Doing anything else is unsportsmanlike.

So what about FAR Part 91 Sec. 91.119(c) which keeps get violated on
the ridges? Just look at the top scores in olc, there are some definite
proof there as well.

"Doug Haluza" wrote in message
oups.com...

As far as changing the rules, the sunset rule has been on the books for
longer than almost anyone can remember.

Doug, I think you know very well which rules I refer to -- and those are not
FARs. OLC has been designed and introduced as an open forum for the pilots
worldwide to share and compare flight traces online. Their rules
specifically said that they did not intend to police submitted traces for
airspace violations, etc. *That* is what has changed since SSA took over.

If you insist on quoting the rules, their rules, in particular, say (in the
most current version dated 7/13/2006 available at
http://www2.onlinecontest.org/regeln/2006/regeln.php): "10. Validation.
Flights and scores will be accepted if no objections have been filed against
them within 4 weeks after the corresponding weekly deadline". Why have some
scored flights much older than that been quietly disappearing lately? *That*
is what has changed since SSA took over.

Another example, from your own presentation: "SSA has exclusive rights to
OLC in US -- SSA Membership is now required." Makes me go Hmmm.... *That* is
what has changed since SSA took over.

The SSA did not make this [FAR] rule, they just decided not to ignore it.

Exactly, they *just* decided. Just like that. They *just* decided to go back
and check some of the flights for some of the violations and pull them.

If it is indeed true that "the [SSA] Board has directed [you] to look at
Sunset and Class-A", then, again, one has to wonder what rules will be
pulled out of the hat (or out of the FAR) tomorrow. I gave you some ideas
yesterday -- anybody on the Board listens?

The aspect of it that strikes me most is that SSA came uninvited and took
over this great public resource, this open forum for pilots, and started
telling everybody what can and what can't be posted there -- and by whom.
Here is an idea for you: why doesn't SSA take over the US part of
rec.aviation.soaring as well? You could make another presentation and tell
us that "SSA has exclusive rights to r.a.s. in US -- SSA Membership is now
required." While you are at it, why not put a big SSA banner with commercial
ads right on top of every posting. And then somebody on "the Board" could
decide that some things posted here are "damaging to the image of our
sport", and next thing we know is some appointed "SSA-r.a.s. Admin" telling
us "you must remove these postings from the r.a.s. because they make us look
bad as a group". This kind of things can be done to the Internet, you
know -- just look at China.

I'd like to send this new SSA-OLC dish back to the kitchen, and have my OLC
the old way, the way we grew to like it. SSA on the side, if you insist,
please, thank you. So that I can throw it away if I am being fed too much of
it to my taste.
--
Yuliy