Almost Taken to the cleaners!

A Cessna 150 with a runout engine for $28K? He has to be nuts. A buddy
in the hangar behind me has bought several 150's with mid time engines
for about $16K. No 150 is worth $28K unless it's sporting a Garmin 430
and an autopilot and a factory new engine. Keep looking.




wise purchaser wrote:
Grreetings!!

I am returning to aircraft ownership after 15 years. the other day, I
was looking to purchase an airplane that I saw advertised. The price
and features looked real good, EVERYTHING i wanted!! except it had a
run out engine. over 2100 hrs.

they we're asking about $ 28,000 for the plane (cessna 150 with all the
bells) I thought the price was good??? was actualy going to purchase
the plane. I called the seller and we spoke a bit on the phone. told
them I was VERY intrested and would give an offer.

Putzing around last night, surfing the web I found out about AOPA's
Vref and NAAA evaluator. Just for FUN I entered the information on
the plane for $ 28,000

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the airplane was only ( V ref & NAAA) worth $
12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
plane big time !

wise purchaser wrote:

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the airplane was only ( V ref & NAAA) worth $
12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
plane big time !

The other features such as STOL, extra fuel , good radios, added little
tto no value to the basic airplane!

Yup. Besides... who needs STOL with a Cessna 150????

When I called the seller to day with my FAIR offer of $ 18,000 dollars
CASH for the above plane he went NUTS! and started to go crazy on
me, get mad, cussing, etc, etc, etc,

He's a nutcase.

I told him the Vref and NAAA numbers but he went into orbit ( think he
has had others say the same bad news)

I told him that I was NOT trying to Ripp him off , but trying to pay a
FAIR price for his plane.

Am I wrong or out of line in this matter?? I think that if a BANK, or
insurance company is only going to loan / insure $ 12,500 to 13,500
dollars for an airplane then THATS all its TRULY WORTH!!!

No. Nice work. You are plannign on spending a lot of money, you are
allowed to be critical of the plane you buy.


PLEASE provide comments if I am wrong in this matter, then I can re
-offer but some how I think someone is looking for a fish to fry!


Keep up the good work. Besides, you might get bored with a 150 after
a while and want something faster.

kontiki wrote:

Yup. Besides... who needs STOL with a Cessna 150????


Any 150 would benefit from STOL. The 150s we used to run ate up
so much runway on takeoff that a STOL kit would have been a good idea.
Our airport is at 3000' ASL, and on a warm day the performance was
dismal. That, added to the fact that they cost almost as much to run as
a 172, made us finally get rid of them. They weren't the best deal for
the student, as he would spend most of his time climbing: fewer
circuits per hour, fewer spins or stalls. The really old straight-tail
150s were lighter, better streamlined, and had better performance. We
used to joke that the 150 was a good taxi trainer.
I briefly had the use of a 1967 Aircoupe (the final version of
the Ercoupe), and with its 90-hp engine it outperformed the 150 in just
about every way. Shorter takeoff, faster climb, faster cruise. Slips
were lousy (it had rudder pedals but ineffective rudders) and it wasn't
very comfortable, but it used that 90 hp much more efficiently than the
150 uses its 100 horses.
The 150's Continental had more valve problems than our Lycs
ever did. The engine has an optimistic 1800 hour TBO. It leaks oil more
often. I often wonder if the 100-hp rating is honest. If it has a
Marvel Schebler carb (most do), the carb spider has to be properly and
flexibly and fussily mounted with the Lock-O-Seal washers that so few
people know about, or it'll run like a toilet when vibration shakes
fuel out of the bowl vent into the carb throat. The engine wouldn't
tolerate agressive (or clumsy) leaning as well as the Lyc.

Dan

"DT" == Dan Thomas writes:
DT I briefly had the use of a 1967 Aircoupe (the final
DT version of the Ercoupe), and with its 90-hp engine it
DT outperformed the 150 in just about every way. Shorter takeoff,
DT faster climb, faster cruise. Slips were lousy (it had rudder
DT pedals but ineffective rudders) and it wasn't very
DT comfortable, but it used that 90 hp much more efficiently than
DT the 150 uses its 100 horses.

This is very true. I have a '65 Alon Aircoupe, quite similar to the
model you describe. It cruises just 3-5 kts slower than a C172 and
climbout performance is not bad at all on a cool day with just the
pilot.
--
Programmers are in a race with the Universe to create bigger and
better idiot-proof programs, while the Universe is trying to create
bigger and better idiots. So far the Universe is winning.
Anon

On 22 Sep 2006 13:15:19 -0700, "wise purchaser"
wrote:

Am I wrong or out of line in this matter??


You are not wrong. I know someone trying to sell a completely
overhauled 172 for 40 who is having trouble. New paint, overhauled
engine, instrument panel, interior, and instruments all new and/or
overhauled depending on original condition. A very meticulous
mechanic. 28,000 dollars for a run out 150 isn't realistic.

HTH,
z

a lot of owners/sellers have inflated values on what they think there
aircraft is worth..

A C-150 like that, the engine is 1/2 the value.. at least..

they paid that much so it must be worth that much.. they forget that they
used up equity in the engine, and they did not pay themselves into an engine
fund.. so they have no cash value to set aside to reflect the engine cost or
rebuild it

BT

"wise purchaser" wrote in message
oups.com...
Grreetings!!

I am returning to aircraft ownership after 15 years. the other day, I
was looking to purchase an airplane that I saw advertised. The price
and features looked real good, EVERYTHING i wanted!! except it had a
run out engine. over 2100 hrs.

they we're asking about $ 28,000 for the plane (cessna 150 with all the
bells) I thought the price was good??? was actualy going to purchase
the plane. I called the seller and we spoke a bit on the phone. told
them I was VERY intrested and would give an offer.

Putzing around last night, surfing the web I found out about AOPA's
Vref and NAAA evaluator. Just for FUN I entered the information on
the plane for $ 28,000

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the airplane was only ( V ref & NAAA) worth $
12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
plane big time !

The other features such as STOL, extra fuel , good radios, added little
tto no value to the basic airplane!

When I called the seller to day with my FAIR offer of $ 18,000 dollars
CASH for the above plane he went NUTS! and started to go crazy on
me, get mad, cussing, etc, etc, etc,

I told him the Vref and NAAA numbers but he went into orbit ( think he
has had others say the same bad news)

I told him that I was NOT trying to Ripp him off , but trying to pay a
FAIR price for his plane.

Am I wrong or out of line in this matter?? I think that if a BANK, or
insurance company is only going to loan / insure $ 12,500 to 13,500
dollars for an airplane then THATS all its TRULY WORTH!!!

I think my offer of $ 18,000 dollars CASH was more than fair for the
plane. that's $ 4500 bucks over the Vref and NAAA value.

PLEASE provide comments if I am wrong in this matter, then I can re
-offer but some how I think someone is looking for a fish to fry!

THANK GOD for V ref & trade a plane NAAA as I would have paid the
$ 28, grand give or take!

P.S. The BEST price that I got for and Overhaul is $ 9,000 grand using
the existing I engine.

Whats there to go nuts over. You offer what you want to pay. He asks for
what he wants. If the two numbers are close enough you may have a deal..
if they aren't, he just has to say no.. and you move on.

No drama required.

Dave

wise purchaser wrote:
Grreetings!!

I am returning to aircraft ownership after 15 years. the other day, I
was looking to purchase an airplane that I saw advertised. The price
and features looked real good, EVERYTHING i wanted!! except it had a
run out engine. over 2100 hrs.

they we're asking about $ 28,000 for the plane (cessna 150 with all the
bells) I thought the price was good??? was actualy going to purchase
the plane. I called the seller and we spoke a bit on the phone. told
them I was VERY intrested and would give an offer.

Putzing around last night, surfing the web I found out about AOPA's
Vref and NAAA evaluator. Just for FUN I entered the information on
the plane for $ 28,000

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the airplane was only ( V ref & NAAA) worth $
12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
plane big time !

The other features such as STOL, extra fuel , good radios, added little
tto no value to the basic airplane!

When I called the seller to day with my FAIR offer of $ 18,000 dollars
CASH for the above plane he went NUTS! and started to go crazy on
me, get mad, cussing, etc, etc, etc,

I told him the Vref and NAAA numbers but he went into orbit ( think he
has had others say the same bad news)

I told him that I was NOT trying to Ripp him off , but trying to pay a
FAIR price for his plane.

Am I wrong or out of line in this matter?? I think that if a BANK, or
insurance company is only going to loan / insure $ 12,500 to 13,500
dollars for an airplane then THATS all its TRULY WORTH!!!

I think my offer of $ 18,000 dollars CASH was more than fair for the
plane. that's $ 4500 bucks over the Vref and NAAA value.

PLEASE provide comments if I am wrong in this matter, then I can re
-offer but some how I think someone is looking for a fish to fry!

THANK GOD for V ref & trade a plane NAAA as I would have paid the
$ 28, grand give or take!

P.S. The BEST price that I got for and Overhaul is $ 9,000 grand using
the existing I engine.

On 22 Sep 2006 13:15:19 -0700, "wise purchaser"
wrote:


WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the airplane was only ( V ref & NAAA) worth $
12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
plane big time !

The other features such as STOL, extra fuel , good radios, added little
tto no value to the basic airplane!

When I called the seller to day with my FAIR offer of $ 18,000 dollars
CASH for the above plane he went NUTS! and started to go crazy on
me, get mad, cussing, etc, etc, etc,

I told him the Vref and NAAA numbers but he went into orbit ( think he
has had others say the same bad news)


Vref seems to give inflated prices. I don't understand why you would offer
him $5,000 MORE than Vref.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

In article .com,
"wise purchaser" wrote:

[snip]
Putzing around last night, surfing the web I found out about AOPA's
Vref and NAAA evaluator. Just for FUN I entered the information on
the plane for $ 28,000

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the airplane was only ( V ref & NAAA) worth $
12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
plane big time !
[snip]

As others have said, vref always seems high.

However, I'd like to point out something that changed with vref. I don't
know when they did it, but when I went to vref this past week, it no longer
adds value for radios like an extra KX-155, or an ADF, or a DME. Vref
is much more realistic in the items to add value. No value for "old
technology" like a second radio, but finally adds value for things like
engine upgrades.

For my cherokee 140, vref previously returned a value of more than $53,000
(with no credit for the 160hp STC). Now it's just a little more than $50,000,
with credit for the 160hp STC, low TT (2415), and low engine time (100 SMOH).
Probably still too high in today's market, but more realistic.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

wise purchaser wrote:
Grreetings!!

I am returning to aircraft ownership after 15 years. the other day, I
was looking to purchase an airplane that I saw advertised. The price
and features looked real good, EVERYTHING i wanted!! except it had a
run out engine. over 2100 hrs.
[snip]

Where are you located?