Regs regarding "VFR flight following?" (also: "need to vent")

Newps wrote:
wrote:
If I am on flight following/ VFR advisiories, whatever you
want to call it and I am flying from JAC to SLC, I am in communication
with ATC for over an hour. As I approach Class Bravo airspace around
Salt Lake City, if I don't hear those magic words " CLEARED INTO CLASS
BRAVO AIRSPACE" and I fly into the valley I can assure you I will hear
" CALL THE TOWER" upon landing. Being in communication with enroute
does NOT clear me into Bravo airspace or "grant" me entry.


You are right, you must hear "cleared into the class Bravo". You will
almost never hear the center give that clearance. There have been a few
instances where ATC led a pilot down the path andthe pilot went into the
class B without a clearance but didn't suffer any consequences.

Yup, I've even had a controller yell at me for asking her to confirm I
was cleared into Class Bravo after she vectored me into it. She said
"you have a squawk code, you're talking to me, you don't need anything
more!" To make it more interesting, this was flying into IAD, in the DC
ADIZ, where a pilot definitely wants to confirm clearance! I figured
she deals with VFR traffic so seldom, she forgot the requirement to be
cleared into Class Bravo.

"xyzzy" wrote:
Yup, I've even had a controller yell at me for asking her to confirm I
was cleared into Class Bravo after she vectored me into it. She said
"you have a squawk code, you're talking to me, you don't need anything
more!"

She was wrong. Ask for her phone number and have a calm, rational, chat
with her (or her supervisor) on the phone after you land. ****ing contests
on the frequency never lead to anything good. Quote her the AIM, Chapter
3, section 2, paragraph 3-2-1-d, which say:

"VFR Requirements. It is the responsibility of the pilot to insure that ATC
clearance or radio communication requirements are met prior to entry into
Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace. The pilot retains this
responsibility when receiving ATC radar advisories. (See 14 CFR Part 91.)"

Roy Smith wrote:
"xyzzy" wrote:
Yup, I've even had a controller yell at me for asking her to confirm I
was cleared into Class Bravo after she vectored me into it. She said
"you have a squawk code, you're talking to me, you don't need anything
more!"

She was wrong. Ask for her phone number and have a calm, rational, chat
with her (or her supervisor) on the phone after you land. ****ing contests
on the frequency never lead to anything good. Quote her the AIM, Chapter
3, section 2, paragraph 3-2-1-d, which say:

I agree she was wrong and I wasn't about to get into a ****ing match
over it. Nor did I ask for her phone number. I was busy enough as it
was, the frequency was crowded, and I took her response to be
confirmation of my clearance, which is what I needed.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

She was wrong. Ask for her phone number and have a calm, rational, chat
with her (or her supervisor) on the phone after you land. ****ing
contests
on the frequency never lead to anything good. Quote her the AIM, Chapter
3, section 2, paragraph 3-2-1-d, which say:

"VFR Requirements. It is the responsibility of the pilot to insure that
ATC clearance or radio communication requirements are met prior
to entry into Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace. The pilot retains
this responsibility when receiving ATC radar advisories. (See 14 CFR
Part 91.)"


Might be better to quote FAAO 7110.65:


7-9-2. VFR AIRCRAFT IN CLASS B AIRSPACE

a. VFR aircraft must obtain an ATC clearance to operate in Class B airspace.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Operational Requests, Para 2-1-18.
FAAO 7110.65, Airspace Classes, Para 2-4-22.

PHRASEOLOGY-
CLEARED THROUGH/TO ENTER/OUT OF BRAVO AIRSPACE,

and as appropriate,

VIA (route). MAINTAIN (altitude) WHILE IN BRAVO AIRSPACE.

or

CLEARED AS REQUESTED.

(Additional instructions, as necessary.)

REMAIN OUTSIDE BRAVO AIRSPACE. (When necessary, reason and/or additional
instructions.)

NOTE-
1. Assignment of radar headings, routes, or altitudes is based on the
provision that a pilot operating in accordance with VFR is expected to
advise ATC if compliance will cause violation of any part of the CFR.

2. Separation and sequencing for VFR aircraft is dependent upon radar.
Efforts should be made to segregate VFR traffic from IFR traffic flows when
a radar outage occurs.

b. Approve/deny requests from VFR aircraft to operate in Class B airspace
based on workload, operational limitations and traffic conditions.

c. Inform the pilot when to expect further clearance when VFR aircraft are
held either inside or outside Class B airspace.

d. Inform VFR aircraft when leaving Class B airspace.

PHRASEOLOGY-
LEAVING (name) BRAVO AIRSPACE,

and as appropriate,

RESUME OWN NAVIGATION, REMAIN THIS FREQUENCY FOR TRAFFIC ADVISORIES, RADAR
SERVICE TERMINATED, SQUAWK ONE TWO ZERO ZERO.

Ok. I have two questions for Steve, the guy who claims to be a
controller,

1- Is this correct??????

2- are you really a controller???


Ben

She was wrong. Ask for her phone number and have a calm, rational,
chat
with her (or her supervisor) on the phone after you land. ****ing contests
on the frequency never lead to anything good. Quote her the AIM, Chapter
3, section 2, paragraph 3-2-1-d, which say:

"VFR Requirements. It is the responsibility of the pilot to insure that ATC
clearance or radio communication requirements are met prior to entry into
Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace. The pilot retains this
responsibility when receiving ATC radar advisories. (See 14 CFR Part 91.)"

Roy Smith wrote:
"xyzzy" wrote:
Yup, I've even had a controller yell at me for asking her to confirm I
was cleared into Class Bravo after she vectored me into it. She said
"you have a squawk code, you're talking to me, you don't need anything
more!"

She was wrong. Ask for her phone number and have a calm, rational, chat
with her (or her supervisor) on the phone after you land. ****ing contests
on the frequency never lead to anything good. Quote her the AIM, Chapter
3, section 2, paragraph 3-2-1-d, which say:

"VFR Requirements. It is the responsibility of the pilot to insure that ATC
clearance or radio communication requirements are met prior to entry into
Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace. The pilot retains this
responsibility when receiving ATC radar advisories. (See 14 CFR Part 91.)"