Common instruments on small aircraft

karl gruber wrote:
...
The rulings don't have to make common sense. You must have commonality,"
which means you can't fly someone around for their convenience. That's 135.

IOW, if I log the time in my own plane, it's 135. If not logged,
it's permissible. FAA's legal opinions on 135 are on their web
site, and I don't think there's one which would stretch a favor
for a friend that far. They often decide a 135 issue based upon
the expectations of the passenger. So, if I fly a pilot/friend to
another field to retrieve his airplane, for no payment (cost
sharing prohibited if no common purpose), that pilot/friend is
under no delusion I'm an air taxi operator. And one who flies
charter for free. I make it up in volume. :-)

Fred F.

Marty Shapiro wrote:
Inspector's for at least 2 FSDO's that I'm aware of say otherwise.
They were very clear in different Wings safety seminars that providing air
transportation for a friend is NOT permitted for a private pilot. One even
stated that the FAA added the definition of logging time as compensation
for this exact case, where the pilot does not charge at all. They
empasized that unless you were going to make the trip regardless of whether
or not your friend was going along, you would be violating the FARs.

Ok - well maybe I'm wrong. I read an article in AOPA awhile back that
was on the legalities of this very subject that said it illegal *if*
there are shared expenses.

Can anyone point to any official statements or rulings by the FAA?

Marty Shapiro wrote:
Inspector's for at least 2 FSDO's that I'm aware of say otherwise.
They were very clear in different Wings safety seminars that providing air
transportation for a friend is NOT permitted for a private pilot. One even
stated that the FAA added the definition of logging time as compensation
for this exact case, where the pilot does not charge at all. They
empasized that unless you were going to make the trip regardless of whether
or not your friend was going along, you would be violating the FARs.

Another point (not saying that I'm right or you're right) is that if
you are paying for the entire cost of the flight, how can logging
flight time which *you* are paying for be perceived as being received
from the passenger?

The logged time cannot (should not) be considered compensation from the
passenger because the passenger in now way provided it to you. However,
if there are shared expenses, then it could be seen that the passenger
payed for some of the logged time.

"Bart" wrote in message
ps.com...
Marty Shapiro wrote:
Inspector's for at least 2 FSDO's that I'm aware of say otherwise.
They were very clear in different Wings safety seminars that providing
air
transportation for a friend is NOT permitted for a private pilot. One
even
stated that the FAA added the definition of logging time as compensation
for this exact case, where the pilot does not charge at all. They
empasized that unless you were going to make the trip regardless of
whether
or not your friend was going along, you would be violating the FARs.

Another point (not saying that I'm right or you're right) is that if
you are paying for the entire cost of the flight, how can logging
flight time which *you* are paying for be perceived as being received
from the passenger?

The logged time cannot (should not) be considered compensation from the
passenger because the passenger in now way provided it to you. However,
if there are shared expenses, then it could be seen that the passenger
payed for some of the logged time.

I think I see why this is so confusing...It has nothing to do with the
passenger.

If you do not have "commonality" for making the trip, the chance to log
flight time (regardless of the reason, regardless if you split it pro rata
or not) can be viewed as compensation.

If you are flying because your passenger wants to go somewhere (and you
don't have a legitimate reason to go as well...and even if your passenger
doesn't give you a penny) you are being given an opportunity to log time
that you might not otherwise be logging...this is considered compensation.

Jay B

If you are flying because your passenger wants to go somewhere (and you
don't have a legitimate reason to go as well...and even if your passenger
doesn't give you a penny) you are being given an opportunity to log time
that you might not otherwise be logging...this is considered compensation.

Does this "opportunity" not exist in other circumstances? Every time I
fly I have the opportunity to log time I might otherwise not be logging.
Every time I wake up I have the opportunity to fly.

The FAA is so bizzare on this it is no surprise it gets no respect.
What surprises me is the number of pilots that seem to =support= this
kind of interpretation.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jay Beckman wrote:
If you are flying because your passenger wants to go somewhere (and you
don't have a legitimate reason to go as well...and even if your passenger
doesn't give you a penny) you are being given an opportunity to log time
that you might not otherwise be logging...this is considered compensation.

What if I don't log the time?

"Bart" wrote in message
ups.com...
As long as the pilot pays for the entire cost of operating the aircraft
(ie - no pro rata sharing of expenses), it is legal.

Logging flight time is considered compensation on flights where there
is sharing of expenses. The added "compensation" to the pilot (beyond
the sharing of expenses) of being able to log flight time violates the
pro rata.



No! There must be "commonality."

Karl
"Curator" N185KG

In article ,
"karl gruber" wrote:

No! There must be "commonality."

Does the "regulation" require the commonality to one-to-one
and on-to?

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

karl gruber wrote:
"Bart" wrote in message
ups.com...
As long as the pilot pays for the entire cost of operating the aircraft
(ie - no pro rata sharing of expenses), it is legal.

Logging flight time is considered compensation on flights where there
is sharing of expenses. The added "compensation" to the pilot (beyond
the sharing of expenses) of being able to log flight time violates the
pro rata.



No! There must be "commonality."

No! Only if sharing expenses.

Marty Shapiro writes:

If your friend invites you to attend the wedding, then there is no
problem, as you have a common purpose for the trip where the air
transportation is incidental. But if you are only flying to transport your
friend to the wedding and you have no other purpose in going on the flight,
then you are in violation.

Does wanting to go flying count as having a purpose?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.