A reluctance to take the controls

Guy Elden Jr writes:

Well, one of the missions of AOPA is to promote GA to as many people as
possible, and understandably, for many reasons, not everyone is
destined to be a pilot. Whenever I get the chance to chat someone up
about aviation, I find that more often than not, the issue of cost
crops up.

When a hobby costs ten thousand dollars to get into and thousands of
additional dollars a year, cost usually crops up in the conversation.

My impression is that most people still think that pilots of
small planes are the untouchable richie rich establishment doctor /
lawyer crowd, and despite all of my arguments about ways to manage the
cost, the fact that I choose this versus many other things I could do
with that money, etc, that thought sticks in their minds.

Justifiably so. Richie Rich, doctors, and lawyers are a lot closer to
reality than McDonald's employees, welfare recipients, or the average
wage earner.

About the
only way I can think of shaking that mentality is to take someone to a
nice small airfield about 50 miles away that has a nice rustic charm to
it, with lots of pilots hangar flying over breakfast / lunch in a nice
small restaurant on the field, watching the old airbirds flying in and
out.

What if they don't want to fly old airbirds?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Jay Honeck wrote:
That first lesson was an eye opener - a plane is like a 3D motorcycle.
Now I'm hooked. I'll be tooling around central Indiana in a J-3 Cub
an hour and a half from now.

That's kind of the effect I'm looking for in people -- and we usually
get it!

What I don't understand is that you never felt the desire to try out
the controls when your wife was PIC. It would have seemed the perfect
opportunity to test the waters, and I (like, I believe most people)
would have jumped at the chance.


I'm with you Jay. But I may be different that most. Given the chance
to take the controls of almost any machine, I would jump at it. I have
zero desire to own or pilot a boat, but if I happened to be on one, and
was asked if I would like to try to drive it, I would not hesitate.
Same for just about anything from a backhoe to the QE2


--
Chris W
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In article . com,
Jay Honeck wrote:
That first lesson was an eye opener - a plane is like a 3D motorcycle.
Now I'm hooked. I'll be tooling around central Indiana in a J-3 Cub
an hour and a half from now.

That's kind of the effect I'm looking for in people -- and we usually
get it!

What I don't understand is that you never felt the desire to try out
the controls when your wife was PIC. It would have seemed the perfect
opportunity to test the waters, and I (like, I believe most people)
would have jumped at the chance.

I think it's because I knew it would be a sham - I wouldn't really be
flying the plane, so why bother? It would have felt patronizing. I'd
flown with my wife enough to know how much is really involved with flying
a plane and I had great respect for her skills. Taking the yoke for a
bit after she'd trimmed for straight & level wouldn't really be flying
so it didn't seem worth doing.

--
Scott Post

"Scott Post" wrote in message
...
I think it's because I knew it would be a sham - I wouldn't really be
flying the plane, so why bother? It would have felt patronizing. I'd
flown with my wife enough to know how much is really involved with flying
a plane and I had great respect for her skills. Taking the yoke for a
bit after she'd trimmed for straight & level wouldn't really be flying
so it didn't seem worth doing.

While I'm a strong supporter of your right to your own opinion , I'd still
like to point out that there is a difference between "flying" and
"piloting".

IMHO, the point of offering the controls to a passenger is to allow them to
"fly". That is, there really is something enjoyable about simply being in
control of an aircraft, and this can be shared with passengers. It's not an
act of patronizing on the pilot's part, nor should the passenger feel that
their control of the aircraft is in any way diminished by their lack of
training.

To be a *pilot* does require quite a lot of training, as well as good
judgment and a variety of other personal qualities. But I don't see that as
any good reason for a passenger to not find *flying* "worth doing". And
even as a passenger without all the training and practice required to be a
"pilot", you certainly would have been "flying" the airplane, had you
accepted the opportunity to do so.

It's a moot point now, but I'll point out that you were probably flying the
airplane in your very first lesson (as all students do). The lack of
training should not have diminished the fact that you were flying, and just
as it shouldn't have then, it shouldn't in a non-training situation. The
only real difference between the two situations is that in one, a qualified
instructor is providing training. What *you* are doing is the same, and
that is flying.

Pete

In article ,
Peter Duniho wrote:
"Scott Post" wrote in message
...
I think it's because I knew it would be a sham - I wouldn't really be
flying the plane, so why bother? It would have felt patronizing. I'd
flown with my wife enough to know how much is really involved with flying
a plane and I had great respect for her skills. Taking the yoke for a
bit after she'd trimmed for straight & level wouldn't really be flying
so it didn't seem worth doing.

While I'm a strong supporter of your right to your own opinion , I'd still
like to point out that there is a difference between "flying" and
"piloting".

IMHO, the point of offering the controls to a passenger is to allow them to
"fly". That is, there really is something enjoyable about simply being in
control of an aircraft, and this can be shared with passengers.

I was only answering for myself. I still offer non-pilots a chance to
"fly" and most are tickled pink. My 8 year old "flew" with me on Friday
and had a ball. It just didn't interest me before I could do everything
myself.

snip

It's a moot point now, but I'll point out that you were probably flying the
airplane in your very first lesson (as all students do). The lack of
training should not have diminished the fact that you were flying, and just
as it shouldn't have then, it shouldn't in a non-training situation. The
only real difference between the two situations is that in one, a qualified
instructor is providing training. What *you* are doing is the same, and
that is flying.

The difference between being handed the controls briefly as a passenger
and taking a lesson is that the typical passenger only gets to hold the
plane level and maybe do some gentle turns. A student gets to take off,
climb, do climbing and decending turns, etc, all in the first lesson.
In fact, I got to do stalls and steep turns in my first lesson. My wife
(and most non-CFI pilots) wouldn't have been comfortable with me doing
much of that. A lot of people would be content just touching the yoke
in level flight, but that didn't interest me.

Someone else mentioned that it'd be like turning down an offer to drive
a friend's Corvette. I turned down an offer to drive my Brother in Law's
Corvette because driving it on the street didn't seem worthwhile. I
used to race motorcycles and get offers from friends with *really* nice
race-bred modern bikes to swap during street rides and I almost never
take them up on it. If I can't wring it out on a track I'd just as
soon pass. I understand I'm in the minority with that opinion.

As far as Jay's initial question - I think others have hit the nail on
the head that the passenger was probably just enjoying the scenery and
didn't want to be distracted by flying the plane.
--
Scott Post

"Scott Post" wrote in message
m...
I was only answering for myself. I still offer non-pilots a chance to
"fly" and most are tickled pink. My 8 year old "flew" with me on Friday
and had a ball. It just didn't interest me before I could do everything
myself.

Your prerogative. IMHO, you're missing out. Why limit your experiences to
things you can only do to some minimum standard? You're sitting there.
You've got nothing better to do. Why not take the moment? (I ask
rhetorically...IMHO, there is no suitable answer to that question).

The difference between being handed the controls briefly as a passenger
and taking a lesson is that the typical passenger only gets to hold the
plane level and maybe do some gentle turns.

So, in other words it had nothing to do with "how much is really involved
with flying a plane" as it did with your dissatisfaction with the amount of
"stick time" you'd get. That is, IMHO, different from what you originally
said.

At the time, did you tell your wife that you would fly if you got to do more
than just guide the airplane in straight and level flight? I have had had
plenty of passengers do lots more than just hold onto the yoke while the
airplane flies itself. But if a passenger declined to control the airplane
without telling me that they simply wanted to do more, I would have no
reason to suggest that.

A student gets to take off,
climb, do climbing and decending turns, etc, all in the first lesson.
In fact, I got to do stalls and steep turns in my first lesson. My wife
(and most non-CFI pilots) wouldn't have been comfortable with me doing
much of that.

Doing much of what? One doesn't normally do stalls or steep turns in a
typical flight anyway. As far as climbs, descents, turns during those, etc.
go I don't see why your wife wouldn't be comfortable with you doing those
things. I've had my share of passengers handle that sort of thing.

A lot of people would be content just touching the yoke
in level flight, but that didn't interest me.

Someone else mentioned that it'd be like turning down an offer to drive
a friend's Corvette. I turned down an offer to drive my Brother in Law's
Corvette because driving it on the street didn't seem worthwhile. I
used to race motorcycles and get offers from friends with *really* nice
race-bred modern bikes to swap during street rides and I almost never
take them up on it. If I can't wring it out on a track I'd just as
soon pass. I understand I'm in the minority with that opinion.

Yup. You are unnecessarily limiting your experiences. Your loss and, as I
said, your prerogative. Me? Sure, I'd just as soon race a car or bike
around a track if I'm allowed, but if what's available is to just putter
down the street and back, well...that's more than I would have been allowed
otherwise. I'm not going to turn that down, just because I can't fully
utilize the experience.

I wouldn't give up doing something more fun, but if I'm just sitting around
twiddling my thumbs, doing *something*, anything, is better than just
continuing to twiddle my thumbs.

As far as Jay's initial question - I think others have hit the nail on
the head that the passenger was probably just enjoying the scenery and
didn't want to be distracted by flying the plane.

Could've been anything. Some passengers really are panicked by the idea of
controlling the airplane, some simply are enjoying the moment of looking
outside, and some just don't think it's worth the trouble. If you don't ask
the passenger, there's no way to know.

Pete

In article ,
Peter Duniho wrote:
"Scott Post" wrote in message
om...
I was only answering for myself. I still offer non-pilots a chance to
"fly" and most are tickled pink. My 8 year old "flew" with me on Friday
and had a ball. It just didn't interest me before I could do everything
myself.

Your prerogative. IMHO, you're missing out. Why limit your experiences to
things you can only do to some minimum standard? You're sitting there.
You've got nothing better to do. Why not take the moment?

How does this jive with your question for Jay about experiencing being sodomized
by a guy? :-)

Just so you don't think I'm a total dud, I did drive a cherry picker
yesterday. My neighbor rented it to hang xmas lights. I took him up on
his offer to use it. Great fun - ended up hanging lights all over the
house and in every tree in the front yard. I hope he rents it again
after xmas 'cuz otherwise I'll have to cut down the trees to get the
lights down.

--
Scott Post

(Scott Post) wrote:
As far as Jay's initial question - I think others have hit the nail on
the head that the passenger was probably just enjoying the scenery and
didn't want to be distracted by flying the plane.

Exactly. Even a pilot can, or should be able to, appreciate that, IMO. I
don't see why, if a person declines, that automatically means he/she is
not experiencing life. That's a pretty big stretch. A lot of people
won't even get INTO a small airplane, so I'd say she's already a step
ahead. You don't have to have the controls to still enjoy the thrill of
flying, and who knows, if no one makes a huge production over the fact
that she declined this extraordinary opportunity, maybe she'll want to
try it one day.

That first lesson was an eye opener - a plane is like a 3D motorcycle.
Now I'm hooked. I'll be tooling around central Indiana in a J-3 Cub
an hour and a half from now.

Scott, are you Time Pieces members?

In article ,
john smith wrote:
That first lesson was an eye opener - a plane is like a 3D motorcycle.
Now I'm hooked. I'll be tooling around central Indiana in a J-3 Cub
an hour and a half from now.

Scott, are you Time Pieces members?

Don't know what that is, so I assume I'm not a member. :-)

I just got back from the field and can't believe how much fun the Cub is.
Fly a 500' pattern, one big swooping turn to final from abeam the numbers,
chop the throttle once clear of the power lines then drop like a rock until
leveling out and touching the grass soft as you please. Couldn't figure
out the portable radio so just did without. Visited a couple grass strips
then a big paved runway for some crosswind wheel landing practice. I've
only flown the club's Champ from the front and just can't feel what the
tail is doing so I end up watching the ball too much. From the back of
the Cub I can feel slip/skid in the seat of my pants and any passenger
in the front seat blocks the instruments anyhow. After 7 hours carting
the family to the inlaw's for Thanksgiving in a Skyhawk it felt good to
fly something with character. I passed 70 hours in my log book today.
I think I'll use the Cub to build some of the 50 x-country hours I need
for the IR. Won't get very far, but the FAA counts hours, not miles.

--
Scott Post