Instrument Check Ride - What navigation equipment can I use ?

Jim,

It is a whole lot easier to learn how to use an autopilot than to learn
how to manage the cockpit workload after it breaks in the soup. That's
my only point.


A good one, too.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"Roy N5804F" wrote:
Recently I installed in the Archer a complete new Garmin left stack
including the GNS530.
I kept one of the old KX170B's [repositioned] and its glideslope indicator
so that I have dual ILS & VOR systems.

Sounds like a good plan.

Now comes my question, what will I be allowed to use on my instrument
checkride?

The rules allow the examiner to ask you to demonstrate that you can use
anything that's in the airplane. You should be prepared to fly everything
in the PTS both with and without the A/P. You should be prepared to fly
everything that's possible to fly with the GPS turned off.

I am assuming that the examiner will want the 530 switched off at some stage
for at least one ILS approach, while using the KX170B + GS Indicator ?

You didn't mention a marker beacon receiver, but I assume you've got one of
those (they're often built into audio panels). The KX-170 and a marker
beacon receiver should be enough to enable you to fly an ILS (certainly if
you're vectored to final).

Be prepared to answer questions about when your GPS can legally substitute
for other navaids (such as DME or ADF). Many ILSs have notes like "ADF
required". Your 530 can substitute for the ADF on an ILS, but if the 530
is failed, you can't fly legally fly an "ADF Required" ILS with just the
KX-170.

Understand what PIC emergency authority allows you to do. A reasonable
answer to "can we legally fly this [AFD-required ILS] approach with just
the KX-170?" might be something like, "No, except in an emergency. As a
practical matter, the ADF is only needed for the missed. In an emergency,
I would just ask the controller for alternate missed instructions before I
began the approach".

If he asks you to fly an ILS with both radios working, he will expect you
to dial the localizer freq into the KX-170 as a backup and monitor both
CDIs during the approach.

If I was giving you a checkride with the set of equipment you described, I
would ask you to fly:

1) An ILS with everything working, vectors to final, hand-flown.

2) A GPS approach with everything working, autopilot, full approach.

3) A partial-panel (i.e. DG and AI failed) VOR approach with just the two
VOR receivers (i.e. the NAV portion of the 530 and the KX-170), hand flown,
full approach.

Somewhere over the course of the checkride, I would want you to demonstrate
to me a couple of different A/P modes (i.e. roll steering engaged or
disengaged, heading only mode, nav mode, etc) to make sure you understand
how they all work. Once I was convinced you understood how the box worked,
I would probably have you disengage it for most of the rest of the
checkride. I would expect you to demonstrate to me that you understand its
various failure modes and can recover from some of them. I would expect to
see you running the pre-flight A/P checks per the checklist.

Roy,

. I would expect to
see you running the pre-flight A/P checks per the checklist.


Ah, here's a question I have: Would you do/expect the full check
including engaging the A/P on the ground and watching the servos do
their thing when you turn the DG or the OBS? Or would the A/P internal
test routine (I'm thinking of the S-TEC 50 here) suffice?

Thansk!

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

In article ,
Thomas Borchert wrote:

Roy,

. I would expect to
see you running the pre-flight A/P checks per the checklist.


Ah, here's a question I have: Would you do/expect the full check
including engaging the A/P on the ground and watching the servos do
their thing when you turn the DG or the OBS? Or would the A/P internal
test routine (I'm thinking of the S-TEC 50 here) suffice?

Thansk!

The FAA is very into checklists. Do whatever the checklist that came with
the A/P says.

Roy,

The FAA is very into checklists. Do whatever the checklist that came with
the A/P says.


I can do that ;-)

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Thomas Borchert wrote:
Roy,

. I would expect to
see you running the pre-flight A/P checks per the checklist.


Ah, here's a question I have: Would you do/expect the full check
including engaging the A/P on the ground and watching the servos do
their thing when you turn the DG or the OBS? Or would the A/P internal
test routine (I'm thinking of the S-TEC 50 here) suffice?


I do the full Autopilot checkilst when I expect to use the autopilot
or when there's a chance I'll be in IMC.

The stec-55x test (as originally shipped to me) is involved. It
involves...watching it follow the bug, watching it follow the NAV
(with REV pressed too), watching it try to trim to hold alt when
you push and pull on the wheel, making sure it disconnects in
a variety modes (switch, big red button, using the electric trim,
using CWS) etc... about the only thing not tested during preflight
is the APR mode.

The thing has failed on me. For a while any attempt to engage
HDG/NAV mode caused it to go into a hard left turn.

Roy N5804F wrote:
quipment available.

Now comes my question, what will I be allowed to use on my instrument
checkride ?
I am assuming that the examiner will want the 530 switched off at some stage
for at least one ILS approach, while using the KX170B + GS Indicator ?

While things can mysterious fail at any time, you should be prepared
to use everything in the plane.

I got to use my moving map (the only thing that failed was the AI
and the HSI) throughout the checkride. I used the autopilot for
the holding pattern up to the procedure turn on the first approach
and then he requested I hand fly from then on.

After the stickies came on during unusual attitudes, he had me
go fly the GPS approach partial panel. Of course the GPS feeds
my HSI, but it's as easy following the purple line on the map
just zoom it up. He even suggested that I could use the autopilot
if I knew how to make it work in that regime (which I did for a
while, but it was so gusty that the thing was hunting all over
the course, so we decided I could do a better job handflying it).

Roy N5804F wrote:
Now after flying the aircraft for quite a few IFR training flight plans I am
reasonably sharp in using the new equipment in IMC and flying with it "in
the system".
I am pretty ok using the Century IIB to fly coupled approaches with the
KX170B and coupled VOR radial intercepts.
So with or without the roll steering equipment I am reasonably comfortable
using any or all of the equipment available.

Now comes my question, what will I be allowed to use on my instrument
checkride ?
I am assuming that the examiner will want the 530 switched off at some stage
for at least one ILS approach, while using the KX170B + GS Indicator ?

Thanks
Roy

Note that the new Instrument PTS *requires* the use of the autopilot (if
installed an operable) during one of the non-precision approaches. The
PTS also says that 'the applicant must demonstrate GPS approach
proficiency when asked' - which pretty much all but requires you to do a
GPS approach. Apparently a common failure point these days on
instrument checkrides is improper use of the GPS during a GPS approach
(GPS not in approach mode, etc.).

This is copied directly from the instrument PTS:

"The applicant is expected to utilize an autopilot and/or flight
management system (FMS), if properly installed, during the instrument
practical test to assist in the management of the aircraft. The examiner
is expected to test the applicant’s knowledge of the systems that are
installed and operative during the oral and flight portions of the
practical test. The applicant will be required to demonstrate the use of
the autopilot and/or FMS during one of the nonprecision approaches.
If the practical test is conducted in the aircraft, and the aircraft has
an operable and properly installed GPS, the applicant must demonstrate
GPS approach proficiency when asked. If the applicant has contracted for
training in an approved course that includes GPS training in the system
that is installed in the airplane/simulator/FTD and the
airplane/simulator/FTD used for the checking/testing has the same system
properly installed and operable, the applicant must demonstrate GPS
approach proficiency. When a practical test is conducted for a 14 CFR
part 135 operator, the operator’s approved training program is the
controlling authority."


- Ray

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:57:17 GMT, "Roy N5804F"
wrote:


I have started another thread to get a consensus of opinion about what
navigation equipment I will be allowed to use on my instrument check ride.

Recently I installed in the Archer a complete new Garmin left stack
including the GNS530.
I kept one of the old KX170B's [repositioned] and its glideslope indicator
so that I have dual ILS & VOR systems.
I also kept the Flybuddy Loran which I intend to replace with a slide in GPS
replacement to act as another backup.
The ADF went to a new home via eBay.
The aircraft has a Century IIB AP which is now interfaced with a new GDC31
roll steering unit to the 530.
So just like magic, the bird now flies any programmed route that is active
in the 530 including handling horizontal guidance for the missed approach.

Now after flying the aircraft for quite a few IFR training flight plans I am
reasonably sharp in using the new equipment in IMC and flying with it "in
the system".
I am pretty ok using the Century IIB to fly coupled approaches with the
KX170B and coupled VOR radial intercepts.
So with or without the roll steering equipment I am reasonably comfortable
using any or all of the equipment available.

Now comes my question, what will I be allowed to use on my instrument
checkride ?
I am assuming that the examiner will want the 530 switched off at some stage
for at least one ILS approach, while using the KX170B + GS Indicator ?

I think this is pretty much up to the examiner.

On my checkride, I was allowed the full use of the radio panel the
entire flight. In my case, Garmin 295, KX155 + GS, KX170 + LOC, ADF,
LORAN, DME.

I have a wing-leveler type AP, and was never requested to use it, nor
did I ask to use it.

-Nathan

Any nav gear in the plane you can be expected to be ASKED to use it,
conversely any NAV gear you have in the plane can be unexpectedly failed
by the DE and you will need to resort to other options.

Nathan Young wrote:
On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:57:17 GMT, "Roy N5804F"
wrote:


I have started another thread to get a consensus of opinion about what
navigation equipment I will be allowed to use on my instrument check ride.

Recently I installed in the Archer a complete new Garmin left stack
including the GNS530.
I kept one of the old KX170B's [repositioned] and its glideslope indicator
so that I have dual ILS & VOR systems.
I also kept the Flybuddy Loran which I intend to replace with a slide in GPS
replacement to act as another backup.
The ADF went to a new home via eBay.
The aircraft has a Century IIB AP which is now interfaced with a new GDC31
roll steering unit to the 530.
So just like magic, the bird now flies any programmed route that is active
in the 530 including handling horizontal guidance for the missed approach.

Now after flying the aircraft for quite a few IFR training flight plans I am
reasonably sharp in using the new equipment in IMC and flying with it "in
the system".
I am pretty ok using the Century IIB to fly coupled approaches with the
KX170B and coupled VOR radial intercepts.
So with or without the roll steering equipment I am reasonably comfortable
using any or all of the equipment available.

Now comes my question, what will I be allowed to use on my instrument
checkride ?
I am assuming that the examiner will want the 530 switched off at some stage
for at least one ILS approach, while using the KX170B + GS Indicator ?


I think this is pretty much up to the examiner.

On my checkride, I was allowed the full use of the radio panel the
entire flight. In my case, Garmin 295, KX155 + GS, KX170 + LOC, ADF,
LORAN, DME.

I have a wing-leveler type AP, and was never requested to use it, nor
did I ask to use it.

-Nathan