SR-71

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...

As I mentioned in the previous message, this -fact- was demonstrated to
me
by a printer while he was setting type on an old printing press on the
university campus where I studied Journalism.

History is not subject to demonstration.

Nor is it subject to some usenet geek deciding without supporting evidence
what's urban legend and not.

If you think it's an urban legend, than show me what you have. Otherwise,
as a graduate of the School of Journalism, I'll give folks the same advice
the pilots have been giving you out here; don't stick your nose in stuff
you don't know unless you've got something to demonstrate that you do, in
fact, know it. I'll take an actual printing press operator's word over
yours as quickly as I'll take an pilot's. Sorry. Experience and credential
still mean more to me than something you might have read on the internet.

The fact that a printer might be able to cause the event in question does
not mean that it was
the motivation for placing periods inside quotation marks.

Thanks. If I need your analysis of American grammar and print history, I'll
ask for it.


-c

gatt writes:

If you think it's an urban legend, than show me what you have.

The burden of proof is on the person who makes the original claim.
I'm not required to prove that there are no pink elephants.

Otherwise, as a graduate of the School of Journalism, I'll give
folks the same advice the pilots have been giving you out here;
don't stick your nose in stuff you don't know unless you've got
something to demonstrate that you do, in fact, know it.

What does journalism have to do with printing and typesetting (or
aviation, for that matter)?

I'll take an actual printing press operator's word over yours
as quickly as I'll take an pilot's. Sorry.

That is your prerogative; you need not apologize for it.

Experience and credential still mean more to me than something
you might have read on the internet.

Well, hopefully nothing will ever happen that will force you to change
your mind. It has happened to me, though, and so I'm not quite so
trusting today.

Thanks. If I need your analysis of American grammar and print history, I'll
ask for it.

I don't recall discussing grammar, but I'll be happy to give analyses
in any area that I know something about. But grammar and print don't
really belong in this group.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

RomeoMike wrote:
Then you would know that periods always go inside quotation marks. :-)

Blanche wrote:

I spent too many years with Strunk & White's "Elements of Style".

*sigh*

My bad. Oddly enough, the examples in the book show the period inside
the quotes, yet the only explanation relates to the use of a comma.
I think I need to get a new copy, too. Mine is dated 1979.

Blanche wrote:
RomeoMike wrote:
Then you would know that periods always go inside quotation marks. :-)

Blanche wrote:

I spent too many years with Strunk & White's "Elements of Style".

*sigh*

My bad. Oddly enough, the examples in the book show the period inside
the quotes, yet the only explanation relates to the use of a comma.
I think I need to get a new copy, too. Mine is dated 1979.


Yeh, period and comma inside the quotation mark, colon and semicolon
outside, and the question mark and exclamation mark... it varies. Go
figure! :-)

RomeoMike wrote:

Then you would know that periods always go inside quotation marks. :-)


Not always. If the quote is a single letter or number at the end of the
sentence, then the period goes outside of the quotation marks, as in:

Mark your choice in the box with an "X".
or,
Jessica is a "10".

While the general approach in the US is to put commas or periods inside the
quotation marks, the rest of the English speaking world tends to use a more
logical approach depending on context: If the comma or period is part of
the quotation, then the punctuation is placed inside the quotation marks.
If the comma or period is not part of the quotation, then it is placed
outside the quotation marks.

The lore is that the US approach to placement of the punctuation marks had
its origins with mechanical typesetting. If a comma, or more particularly
a period, was placed outside of the quotation marks, it was more exposed.
Being relatively small, the small punctuation marks tended to break off
during the printing run. They were more protected if placed inside the
quotation marks, hence the origin of the US practice.

James Robinson wrote:
RomeoMike wrote:

Then you would know that periods always go inside quotation marks. :-)


Not always. If the quote is a single letter or number at the end of the
sentence, then the period goes outside of the quotation marks, as in:

Mark your choice in the box with an "X".
or,
Jessica is a "10".

While the general approach in the US is to put commas or periods inside the
quotation marks, the rest of the English speaking world tends to use a more
logical approach depending on context: If the comma or period is part of
the quotation, then the punctuation is placed inside the quotation marks.
If the comma or period is not part of the quotation, then it is placed
outside the quotation marks.

The lore is that the US approach to placement of the punctuation marks had
its origins with mechanical typesetting. If a comma, or more particularly
a period, was placed outside of the quotation marks, it was more exposed.
Being relatively small, the small punctuation marks tended to break off
during the printing run. They were more protected if placed inside the
quotation marks, hence the origin of the US practice.

I am not an expert, but I offer:
http://www.uottawa.ca/academic/arts/...ar/qmarks.html

If you have a reference for your "X". example, I am interested just for
my own edification.

RomeoMike wrote:



James Robinson wrote:
RomeoMike wrote:

Then you would know that periods always go inside quotation marks.
:-)


Not always. If the quote is a single letter or number at the end of
the sentence, then the period goes outside of the quotation marks, as
in:

Mark your choice in the box with an "X".
or,
Jessica is a "10".

While the general approach in the US is to put commas or periods
inside the quotation marks, the rest of the English speaking world
tends to use a more logical approach depending on context: If the
comma or period is part of the quotation, then the punctuation is
placed inside the quotation marks. If the comma or period is not
part of the quotation, then it is placed outside the quotation marks.

I am not an expert, but I offer:
http://www.uottawa.ca/academic/arts/...ar/qmarks.html

If you have a reference for your "X". example, I am interested just
for my own edification.

Canadians have somewhat of a schizothymic existence regarding language.
Being close to the US, many US spellings and pronunciations get picked up
from magazines and over-the-border television broadcasts. As an example,
one of their major newspapers, the Globe and Mail, at one time adopted a
style manual that dropped the "U" in words such as honour, neighbour, and
flavour. Their readers convinced them to return to the more traditional
spellings - at least more traditional for Canada.

Here is a link to a discussion about punctuation around single letters:

http://www.grammartips.homestead.com/inside.html

As with anything involving language, there are no absolutes. Language
evolves, and many things that your grade school teacher told you were
wrong are now accepted in normal writing. Anyone who speaks English as
good as I knows there are no hard rules regarding grammar.

(Yes, I know there are mistakes in that last sentence, before anyone
jumps on it. I was simply demonstrating that many won't see a problem
with it.)

James Robinson wrote:
RomeoMike wrote:


James Robinson wrote:
RomeoMike wrote:

Then you would know that periods always go inside quotation marks.
:-)

Not always. If the quote is a single letter or number at the end of
the sentence, then the period goes outside of the quotation marks, as
in:

Mark your choice in the box with an "X".
or,
Jessica is a "10".

While the general approach in the US is to put commas or periods
inside the quotation marks, the rest of the English speaking world
tends to use a more logical approach depending on context: If the
comma or period is part of the quotation, then the punctuation is
placed inside the quotation marks. If the comma or period is not
part of the quotation, then it is placed outside the quotation marks.

I am not an expert, but I offer:
http://www.uottawa.ca/academic/arts/...ar/qmarks.html

If you have a reference for your "X". example, I am interested just
for my own edification.

Canadians have somewhat of a schizothymic existence regarding language.
Being close to the US, many US spellings and pronunciations get picked up
from magazines and over-the-border television broadcasts. As an example,
one of their major newspapers, the Globe and Mail, at one time adopted a
style manual that dropped the "U" in words such as honour, neighbour, and
flavour. Their readers convinced them to return to the more traditional
spellings - at least more traditional for Canada.

Here is a link to a discussion about punctuation around single letters:

http://www.grammartips.homestead.com/inside.html

As with anything involving language, there are no absolutes. Language
evolves, and many things that your grade school teacher told you were
wrong are now accepted in normal writing. Anyone who speaks English as
good as I knows there are no hard rules regarding grammar.

(Yes, I know there are mistakes in that last sentence, before anyone
jumps on it. I was simply demonstrating that many won't see a problem
with it.)

Interesting. Here's an American reference that says to put all periods
within the quotation marks except for a parenthetical reference. It
doesn't mention the "X". example.

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handou...r/g_quote.html

As you say, there are no absolutes, and exceptions can always be found.
Additionally, this is an international forum, and I have no idea what
the rules are in Great Britain or Australia, etc.