IFR Cancellation Question

Ron Rosenfeld wrote in
:

Once I get a visual on my airport (KMBO - uncontrolled), I do cancel IFR
as soon as I can.


Perhaps you should reconsider and not cancel IFR until you are legal for
VFR. There have been plenty of times when I've had a "visual" on my
airport, but not been legal VFR.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Ahh, yes, I probably should have said when VFR, I cancel as soon as I can
:-)

Though to be honest, I have never encountered your situation where I was
able to even think about cancelling IFR, as less then one mile viz from the
airport or ceilings lower then 1000 feet is pretty crummy conditions to
even consider cancelling IFR in the air. I certainly won't cancel while I
am in the pattern as at that point, what's a few minutes more for the
airplane behind me.

The 3 or 4 times I have gone to minimums at my airport (1 mile viz and 900
ceilings on a VOR Alpha), last thought on my mind was "communicate" Aviate
and Navigate were first and foremost. I just wait and cancel via CD or FSS
if necessary as soon as I can after cleaning up the plane and am cleared
the runway.

I have read cases where a pilot has cancelled IFR in less then VFR
conditions only to meet up with FSDO personell after landing....

Allen

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:

Perhaps you should reconsider and not cancel IFR until you are legal for
VFR. There have been plenty of times when I've had a "visual" on my
airport, but not been legal VFR.


He didn't say he cancels as soon as he has a visual on the airport, he
said once he has a visual on the airport he cancels as soon as he can.

A Lieberma wrote:
They would if the tower had no radar.

Ok, makes sense on the radar services being terminated, but the IFR
clearance still applies for airspace seperation?

IFR would be then cancelled once wheels touch ground???

At a towered airport without radar, you are still IFR until your wheels
touch the ground (assuming you don't cancel on your own). IFR separation
doesn't require radar contact. It doesn't even require radio contact.
Both of those just make it possible to apply more efficient methods of
achieving the required separation.

At a towered airport without radar, you are still IFR until your wheels
touch the ground (assuming you don't cancel on your own).

If your wheels touch the ground on a Cat IIIc missed approach though,
you ought to still be IFR. That would be one pretty pickle.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In article ,
Jose wrote:

At a towered airport without radar, you are still IFR until your wheels
touch the ground (assuming you don't cancel on your own).

If your wheels touch the ground on a Cat IIIc missed approach though,
you ought to still be IFR. That would be one pretty pickle.

Jose

If you're flying a Cat IIIc approach, the tower probably can't see you,
your wheels, or the runway, so it works out.

Jose wrote:

If your wheels touch the ground on a Cat IIIc missed approach though,
you ought to still be IFR. That would be one pretty pickle.


In conditions requiring a Cat IIIc approach the tower can't see your
wheels touch the ground.

On 12/08/06 13:54, Roy Smith wrote:
A Lieberma wrote:
They would if the tower had no radar.

Ok, makes sense on the radar services being terminated, but the IFR
clearance still applies for airspace seperation?

IFR would be then cancelled once wheels touch ground???

At a towered airport without radar, you are still IFR until your wheels
touch the ground (assuming you don't cancel on your own). IFR separation
doesn't require radar contact. It doesn't even require radio contact.
Both of those just make it possible to apply more efficient methods of
achieving the required separation.

So I wonder if the confusion came when ATC told Allen to Squawk VFR?
This just means that you're no longer in radar contact, and not that
you're no longer IFR, right?

Or, are you supposed to maintain your transponder code until changed
by ATC or you cancel IFR - even if radar service is terminated?

I think the only thing that was missing in Allen's case was the
clearance to fly the visual approach.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Mark Hansen wrote:



So I wonder if the confusion came when ATC told Allen to Squawk VFR?
This just means that you're no longer in radar contact, and not that
you're no longer IFR, right?

No, that measn the controller thought you were VFR.




Or, are you supposed to maintain your transponder code until changed
by ATC or you cancel IFR - even if radar service is terminated?

If you are terminated you still stay on your code unless you are now
going to be VFR.

Mark Hansen wrote in
:

So I wonder if the confusion came when ATC told Allen to Squawk VFR?
This just means that you're no longer in radar contact, and not that
you're no longer IFR, right?

Mark,

My experiences operating in areas of no radar coverage (NOT what happened
here in my original post) is that you maintain your transponder code and
work with "reporting points" as required under IFR enroute rules.

I was in Charlie airspace when I was told to squawk VFR in my original
post, thus my confusion

Or, are you supposed to maintain your transponder code until changed
by ATC or you cancel IFR - even if radar service is terminated?

For no radar coverage, you maintain your transponder code. I had asked
when this happened to me the first time and Center advised me to retain
the code and when I come out of the non radar environment, he would pick
me up. I'd rather sound dumb on the radio then do something dumb :-))

I think the only thing that was missing in Allen's case was the
clearance to fly the visual approach.

EXACTLY right! AND the IFR cancellation received, squawk VFR" buzz words
I learn to know and love.

Those rank up there with "cleared to land" at a controlled airport :-)

Allen

Mark Hansen wrote:

Or, are you supposed to maintain your transponder code until changed
by ATC or you cancel IFR - even if radar service is terminated?

Well in the ADIZ you darn well better keep squawking that discrete
code to the ground even if you cancel IFR (ATC will usually warn
you about this...violations are a pain in the butt for them too).

It's pretty standard everywhere else. I've never been told to
squawk VFR while IFR even without radar service.