Pilot charged with Manslaughter

"Christopher Campbell" wrote in message
e.com...
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 06:41:18 -0800, Gig 601XL Builder wrote
(in article ):

PILOT CHARGED WITH MANSLAUGHTER AFTER FATAL CRASH

How terribly unfortunate.

Unfortunate for who? If you mean the passengers (assuming they A. Didn't
know he didn't have a license and B. Didn't know he was drunk) or all the
legally licensed, safely aviators out there who have what we do lessened
somewhat in the eyes of the general public then I agree.

If you mean for that asshole then well...

On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 09:50:39 -0800, Gig 601XL Builder wrote
(in article ):


"Christopher Campbell" wrote in message
e.com...
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 06:41:18 -0800, Gig 601XL Builder wrote
(in article ):

PILOT CHARGED WITH MANSLAUGHTER AFTER FATAL CRASH

How terribly unfortunate.

Unfortunate for who? If you mean the passengers (assuming they A. Didn't
know he didn't have a license and B. Didn't know he was drunk) or all the
legally licensed, safely aviators out there who have what we do lessened
somewhat in the eyes of the general public then I agree.

If you mean for that asshole then well...



Flying without a license did not kill his passengers, any more than flying
without a flight plan kills anyone. Having a license does not make you a
better pilot.

There are guys who have flown for many years without a license, even filing
and flying IFR in multi-engine aircraft. I do not approve of breaking the
law, of course, but I have been around long enough to know that someone who
is flying illegally may not be any more dangerous than those who are flying
legally.

Drunk, of course, is another matter.

I think there is something wrong with charging a guy with murder because he
did not have a piece of paper from the government. Charging someone with
murder for flying without a license is pure vindictiveness -- punishment for
daring to defy governmental authority. It is not any more dangerous to fly
without a license than with one. You should only be charged for murder if
reckless behavior led to a death. I have no problem with charging him with
murder if he was drunk.

Christopher Campbell wrote:

I think there is something wrong with charging a guy with murder because he
did not have a piece of paper from the government. Charging someone with
murder for flying without a license is pure vindictiveness -- punishment for
daring to defy governmental authority. It is not any more dangerous to fly
without a license than with one. You should only be charged for murder if
reckless behavior led to a death. I have no problem with charging him with
murder if he was drunk.

So if someone who had never been to medical school posed as a surgeon
and operated on your wife or child and killed them, you'd be OK if they
weren't charged with murder? After all, a medical license is just a
piece of paper from the government.

Matt

On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 13:51:55 -0800, Matt Whiting wrote
(in article ):

Christopher Campbell wrote:

I think there is something wrong with charging a guy with murder because he
did not have a piece of paper from the government. Charging someone with
murder for flying without a license is pure vindictiveness -- punishment
for
daring to defy governmental authority. It is not any more dangerous to fly
without a license than with one. You should only be charged for murder if
reckless behavior led to a death. I have no problem with charging him with
murder if he was drunk.

So if someone who had never been to medical school posed as a surgeon
and operated on your wife or child and killed them, you'd be OK if they
weren't charged with murder? After all, a medical license is just a
piece of paper from the government.

He should be charged for murder if he made mistakes in procedure that would
not be expected of a licensed surgeon. He should not be charged with murder
simply because he did not have a license. He should be charged with murder
because of actual reckless behavior, not for simple non-compliance with a
government regulation.

Matt Whiting writes:

So if someone who had never been to medical school posed as a surgeon
and operated on your wife or child and killed them, you'd be OK if they
weren't charged with murder?

If he knew what he was doing, they wouldn't be killed. If he didn't
know what he was doing, they'd be killed. Either way, his attendance
at medical school (or lack thereof) would be irrelevant.

After all, a medical license is just a piece of paper from the government.

Quite so.

It's important not to overestimate the utility of credentials.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Christopher Campbell" wrote in message
e.com...
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 09:50:39 -0800, Gig 601XL Builder wrote
(in article ):


"Christopher Campbell" wrote in message
e.com...
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 06:41:18 -0800, Gig 601XL Builder wrote
(in article ):

PILOT CHARGED WITH MANSLAUGHTER AFTER FATAL CRASH

How terribly unfortunate.

Unfortunate for who? If you mean the passengers (assuming they A. Didn't
know he didn't have a license and B. Didn't know he was drunk) or all the
legally licensed, safely aviators out there who have what we do lessened
somewhat in the eyes of the general public then I agree.

If you mean for that asshole then well...



Flying without a license did not kill his passengers, any more than flying
without a flight plan kills anyone. Having a license does not make you a
better pilot.

There are guys who have flown for many years without a license, even
filing
and flying IFR in multi-engine aircraft. I do not approve of breaking the
law, of course, but I have been around long enough to know that someone
who
is flying illegally may not be any more dangerous than those who are
flying
legally.

Drunk, of course, is another matter.

I think there is something wrong with charging a guy with murder because
he
did not have a piece of paper from the government. Charging someone with
murder for flying without a license is pure vindictiveness -- punishment
for
daring to defy governmental authority. It is not any more dangerous to fly
without a license than with one. You should only be charged for murder if
reckless behavior led to a death. I have no problem with charging him with
murder if he was drunk.




Well they said he had been drinking so I would assume they took that into
account. But in these United States and most other countries you are not
assumed to be capable of safely commanding an aircraft unless you have a
little card from the government that says so. So since charging someone with
manslaughter is a legal matter you are going to have to take whether or not
he was legally qualified to do what he was doing when the folks in his care
got killed. According to the story he NEVER had a certificate so this is not
a case where a guy lost his medical because his BP was too high.

On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 14:08:46 -0800, Gig 601XL Builder wrote
(in article ):


"Christopher Campbell" wrote in message
e.com...
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 09:50:39 -0800, Gig 601XL Builder wrote
(in article ):


"Christopher Campbell" wrote in message
e.com...
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 06:41:18 -0800, Gig 601XL Builder wrote
(in article ):

PILOT CHARGED WITH MANSLAUGHTER AFTER FATAL CRASH

How terribly unfortunate.

Unfortunate for who? If you mean the passengers (assuming they A. Didn't
know he didn't have a license and B. Didn't know he was drunk) or all the
legally licensed, safely aviators out there who have what we do lessened
somewhat in the eyes of the general public then I agree.

If you mean for that asshole then well...



Flying without a license did not kill his passengers, any more than flying
without a flight plan kills anyone. Having a license does not make you a
better pilot.

There are guys who have flown for many years without a license, even
filing
and flying IFR in multi-engine aircraft. I do not approve of breaking the
law, of course, but I have been around long enough to know that someone
who
is flying illegally may not be any more dangerous than those who are
flying
legally.

Drunk, of course, is another matter.

I think there is something wrong with charging a guy with murder because
he
did not have a piece of paper from the government. Charging someone with
murder for flying without a license is pure vindictiveness -- punishment
for
daring to defy governmental authority. It is not any more dangerous to fly
without a license than with one. You should only be charged for murder if
reckless behavior led to a death. I have no problem with charging him with
murder if he was drunk.




Well they said he had been drinking so I would assume they took that into
account. But in these United States and most other countries you are not
assumed to be capable of safely commanding an aircraft unless you have a
little card from the government that says so. So since charging someone with
manslaughter is a legal matter you are going to have to take whether or not
he was legally qualified to do what he was doing when the folks in his care
got killed. According to the story he NEVER had a certificate so this is not
a case where a guy lost his medical because his BP was too high.



I know too many guys who have licenses who are no safer (and, in fact,
considerably less safe) than guys who do.

"Christopher Campbell" wrote in message

I think there is something wrong with charging a guy with murder because
he
did not have a piece of paper from the government. Charging someone with
murder for flying without a license is pure vindictiveness -- punishment
for
daring to defy governmental authority. It is not any more dangerous to fly
without a license than with one. You should only be charged for murder if
reckless behavior led to a death. I have no problem with charging him with
murder if he was drunk.

CJ, do you know the difference between "murder" and "manslaughter"?

Are you practicing law without a license? :~)

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
PILOT CHARGED WITH MANSLAUGHTER AFTER FATAL CRASH
(http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#194044)
A 30-year-old man who was flying a 1972 Bellanca Super Viking when it
crashed into a pond in northeastern Oklahoma on Saturday night,
killing all three passengers, has been charged with three counts of
manslaughter. Thomas Brent Caldwell, 30, of Pryor, Okla., apparently
never had a pilot certificate and was drinking at the time of the
accident, authorities said. Killed in the crash were Mariano Carlos,
15, of Pryor; and Eduardo Robles, 20, and Campos Gonzalez, 33, both
from Mexico. Investigators said it appears the engine was not
producing power when the airplane hit the water, and the passengers
appear to have drowned.

By pilot I assume you are talking about the guy who was flying the
plane? There was no pilot on board according to the NTSB.

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ps.com...

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
PILOT CHARGED WITH MANSLAUGHTER AFTER FATAL CRASH
(http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#194044)
A 30-year-old man who was flying a 1972 Bellanca Super Viking when it
crashed into a pond in northeastern Oklahoma on Saturday night,
killing all three passengers, has been charged with three counts of
manslaughter. Thomas Brent Caldwell, 30, of Pryor, Okla., apparently
never had a pilot certificate and was drinking at the time of the
accident, authorities said. Killed in the crash were Mariano Carlos,
15, of Pryor; and Eduardo Robles, 20, and Campos Gonzalez, 33, both
from Mexico. Investigators said it appears the engine was not
producing power when the airplane hit the water, and the passengers
appear to have drowned.

By pilot I assume you are talking about the guy who was flying the
plane? There was no pilot on board according to the NTSB.

-Robert


You may assume AVWEB was talking about that.