propane preheater

"dave" wrote in message
. ..
I'm not planning on using it to preheat the cabin. I'm wondering how this
is any different than a red dragon or the large pre-heaters that the FBO's
use.


OK. You said "and blow the hot air into the cabin ", so it sounded like you
wanted to use it to preheat the cabin.

Sorry about that I should have explained my intentions more clearly.
But as I said I have seen people use them to warm their cabins. I'm
thinking about using this only at my hanger where I can also use a
ceramic heater for the cabin.

Dave
1960 M35

Stan Prevost wrote:
"dave" wrote in message
. ..
I'm not planning on using it to preheat the cabin. I'm wondering how this
is any different than a red dragon or the large pre-heaters that the FBO's
use.


OK. You said "and blow the hot air into the cabin ", so it sounded like you
wanted to use it to preheat the cabin.

dave wrote:
I'm not planning on using it to preheat the cabin. I'm wondering how
this is any different than a red dragon or the large pre-heaters that
the FBO's use.

Dave

Stan Prevost wrote:
If this is blowing the warm combustion gases into the cabin, plenty of
drawback. The combustion products are primarily carbon dioxide and water
vapor. Lots of water vapor. The moisture can fog all the windows, or
create frost on the inside of the windows if it is below freezing. OK on
the engine, bad in the cabin.


"dave" wrote in message
. ..
Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I use
in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube type
with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply attach a
flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air into the
cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?

Didn't snip -- all the info is needed...

"blow the hot hair into the cabin" read just like that - you were
attempting to heat the cabin and not the engine. IIUC, you are thinking
of using the duct to blow air into the air intakes of the engine?
That's all a Red Dragon is, without the paint job and logo.

I don't see anything wrong with running a duct into the cabin. My plane
(74 warrior) has the battery under the back seat and it must also be
preheated. I run warm air into the cabin from my Red Dragon and prop up
the bench seat so the air gets to it. By the time I've shut down the
heater, put it away, opened the door and got in, any CO buildup is
gone.

Electric heater would work great except for the fact that I don't have
a hangar or electricity available.


Blanche wrote:
dave wrote:
I'm not planning on using it to preheat the cabin. I'm wondering how
this is any different than a red dragon or the large pre-heaters that
the FBO's use.

Dave

Stan Prevost wrote:
If this is blowing the warm combustion gases into the cabin, plenty of
drawback. The combustion products are primarily carbon dioxide and water
vapor. Lots of water vapor. The moisture can fog all the windows, or
create frost on the inside of the windows if it is below freezing. OK on
the engine, bad in the cabin.


"dave" wrote in message
. ..
Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I use
in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube type
with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply attach a
flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air into the
cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?

Didn't snip -- all the info is needed...

"blow the hot hair into the cabin" read just like that - you were
attempting to heat the cabin and not the engine. IIUC, you are thinking
of using the duct to blow air into the air intakes of the engine?
That's all a Red Dragon is, without the paint job and logo.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve - KDMW ]
Posted At: Saturday, December 23, 2006 11:17 AM
Posted To: rec.aviation.owning
Conversation: propane preheater
Subject: propane preheater

I don't see anything wrong with running a duct into the cabin. My
plane
(74 warrior) has the battery under the back seat and it must also be
preheated. I run warm air into the cabin from my Red Dragon and prop
up
the bench seat so the air gets to it. By the time I've shut down the
heater, put it away, opened the door and got in, any CO buildup is
gone.


How do you keep the Carbon Monoxide detector from turning black? There
is enough CO in the heated air stream to trigger the detector -- or
don't you have one in the cockpit?

Steve,
How long do you need to run the red dragon to heat up your engine if
it's around 10F outside? I guess when you're home you can run it off
your car battery. Have you had much experience running it off your
airplane battery?

I'm glad to hear that it works for you to heat the cabin.

Thanks
Dave
1960 M35


Steve - KDMW wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with running a duct into the cabin. My plane
(74 warrior) has the battery under the back seat and it must also be
preheated. I run warm air into the cabin from my Red Dragon and prop up
the bench seat so the air gets to it. By the time I've shut down the
heater, put it away, opened the door and got in, any CO buildup is
gone.

Electric heater would work great except for the fact that I don't have
a hangar or electricity available.


Blanche wrote:
dave wrote:
I'm not planning on using it to preheat the cabin. I'm wondering how
this is any different than a red dragon or the large pre-heaters that
the FBO's use.

Dave

Stan Prevost wrote:
If this is blowing the warm combustion gases into the cabin, plenty of
drawback. The combustion products are primarily carbon dioxide and water
vapor. Lots of water vapor. The moisture can fog all the windows, or
create frost on the inside of the windows if it is below freezing. OK on
the engine, bad in the cabin.


"dave" wrote in message
. ..
Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I use
in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube type
with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply attach a
flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air into the
cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?
Didn't snip -- all the info is needed...

"blow the hot hair into the cabin" read just like that - you were
attempting to heat the cabin and not the engine. IIUC, you are thinking
of using the duct to blow air into the air intakes of the engine?
That's all a Red Dragon is, without the paint job and logo.

On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 22:35:13 -0600, "Stan Prevost"
wrote:

If this is blowing the warm combustion gases into the cabin, plenty of
drawback. The combustion products are primarily carbon dioxide and water
vapor. Lots of water vapor. The moisture can fog all the windows, or
create frost on the inside of the windows if it is below freezing. OK on
the engine, bad in the cabin.

Also, there will probably be a moderate amount of crbon monoxide in the
exhaust. This is not really a good idea, and will instantly tuen any CO
detector "black".



"dave" wrote in message
. ..
Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I use
in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube type
with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply attach a
flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air into the
cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?
Thanks
Dave

On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 22:35:13 -0600, "Stan Prevost"
wrote:

If this is blowing the warm combustion gases into the cabin, plenty of
drawback. The combustion products are primarily carbon dioxide and water
vapor. Lots of water vapor. The moisture can fog all the windows, or
create frost on the inside of the windows if it is below freezing. OK on
the engine, bad in the cabin.


The combustion gasses have more than CO2 and water vapor. They are
highly acetic which is hard on about everything in the plane. If you
have one of those little carbon monoxide detectors (Yellow button)
it'll most likely change color and need to be replaced every time your
preheat. Unless the heater is very good it will also have a lot of
carbon monoxide in the output.

They make good engine heaters in an open space, but I'd not want to
use one in a garage, hangar, or for preheating the cabin.


I used an LP fired salamander in my shop when under construction. It
made my eyes water so bad I had to shut it down and that building
leaked like a sieve before it was closed up.

I changed to a kerosene fired salamander @ 50,000 BTU and checked the
area for CO. It was pretty clean, but I'd want to check any open
flame or catalytic heater for CO before trusting it.

BTW they make a nice small, 1200 watt heater with a fan and thermostat
that also has a tilt switch you can put in the cabin a couple of hours
before take off. Ramp the temp up in steps. (If you have an extension
cord that will reach) Throw some blankets over the cabin if
necessary. It'll be nice and toasty when you get in and drop to
freezing your butt off temps right after engine start, but the
instruments will be nice and warm and you'll at least be comfortable
while getting situated.

As to the propane heater and cabin, I'd outright say don't do it.
The CO will leave quickly but it's hard on every thing else in there.



"dave" wrote in message
...
Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I use
in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube type
with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply attach a
flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air into the
cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?

I've seen them blow air into the engine compartment, but never the
cabin.

Thanks
Dave

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

No drawbacks at all. I've done it as you described. I took an old battery,
put it in a plastic battery case from WalMart, and bought a $20 inverter to
hook to the battery. The propane heater I used ran on 120v, and we have
little access to electricity. Since the heater only needed 120v for a
little fan, the current draw was low, and the battery-inverter thing worked
great. I got a little propane bottle, and a thing called "barbeque saver"
which allows you to refill the little bottle from a standard size tank. I
put the battery box and little propane bottle on an old folding luggage
cart, and had a portable preheater.

"dave" wrote in message
. ..
Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I use
in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube type
with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply attach a
flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air into the
cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?
Thanks
Dave

From someone who has tried...
The problem I had was... they type I have has a combustion area, and the
air actually is just blown over the outside of it. (air blows out only
though the outside area of the internal combustion tube)
The result was, when I added ducting, the increase of back pressure
would cause some air to be blown backwards into the combustion tube and
puts out the flame. Not all are built this way, but many are now.


Mike

dave wrote:
Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I
use in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube
type with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply
attach a flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air
into the cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?
Thanks
Dave