An Open Apology to R.A.P.

Al G writes:

The pitch vs. power controls airspeed is a good example. He led off with
a pre-solo student question, and when someone gave him a very reasonable and
slightly simplified answer, he jumped right back with "what if I'm behind
the power curve?".

http://groups.google.com/groups/sear...&qt_s=Sea rch

Only one USENET post by him contains "power curve," and it occurs only in a
backquote of something said by someone else. None of his posts to any
rec.aviation.* group contains "behind the power curve."

Well, if he knows what a power curve is, and how you get
behind it, he knows enough that the first question made no sense.

He knows what Google is, and how it can be used to show that someone is making
false assertions.

He knows that if a person carelessly or deliberately makes one or more
demonstrably false assertions, any other assertions he makes must be regarded
with extreme caution.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

In article ,
"Al G" wrote:

I respectfully disagree. He isn't trying to discuss aviation. He asks a
seemingly reasonable question, gets an honest answer from someone who has
been there, and done it, and then flat out states that he knows the answer
is wrong. No discussion. No evidence to support his position. No reasons why
he feels everyone with experience is "lying" to him.

Since I have his original posts kill filed and I generally kill a thread
if his header preceeds a response, I have stopped following Anthony's
topics. I think Al has provided the best arguement for the trolling
arguement. It would be an interesting study to post Mx's initial
question and his successive responses to a given thread to show he is
indeed trolling.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message

MX isn't a bad sort, and he *is* trying to discuss aviation.

I also disagree.

I found a way to eliminate him along with any threads he pollutes from my
newsreader. Every so often I change from 'hide ignored messages' to 'show
all messages', just to see if anyone is actually posting.

There's not much troll-free traffic here anymore. It's too bad.

The interesting part is that you are the sole example that I can think of
who could be hurt financially from the death of this group. You've managed
to promote your business along with contributing to this group. I have no
idea how much business is generated through usenet (I suspect not much), but
I doubt you'll get any in 2008 if things continue as they have.

When you post your Pre-Oshkosh schedule, please do so in a new thread, so my
filter won't ignore it. If you post in a thread he's touched, I'll never see
it.

On 2/13/2007 3:44:38 PM, "Steve Foley" wrote:

If you post in a thread he's touched, I'll never see
it.

You need a newsreader that only deletes branches of threads, not the entire
thread, where the poster in question originates the branch.

Otherwise you are missing some good threads started by a legitimate poster.

--
Peter

Steve Foley wrote:
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message

MX isn't a bad sort, and he *is* trying to discuss aviation.

When you post your Pre-Oshkosh schedule, please do so in a new thread, so my
filter won't ignore it. If you post in a thread he's touched, I'll never see
it.


I'm never going to see it even if MX hasn't touched it. I've had enough of his
defending this loser. Obviously, he's lacking the ability to think critically.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

The interesting part is that you are the sole example that I can think of
who could be hurt financially from the death of this group. You've managed
to promote your business along with contributing to this group. I have no
idea how much business is generated through usenet (I suspect not much), but
I doubt you'll get any in 2008 if things continue as they have.

In case you haven't noticed, Steve, I'm not the sort that cares about
stuff like that. I post what I want to post here, usually with my
tongue firmly in cheek (and a thick skin), and I don't worry too much
about the fallout. Shoot, if we relied on Usenet for business, we
wouldn't have lasted 5 weeks, let alone 5 years!

Although I respect the views that are expressed here, and often seek
feedback for changes we're contemplating at the hotel, I'm afraid
losing rec.aviation would do grave harm my psyche, not my checkbook.

But I don't think we have to worry about that happening any time
soon. I've seen this group rocked by some pretty aggravating people,
over the years. Usenet is pretty sturdy!

When you post your Pre-Oshkosh schedule, please do so in a new thread, so my
filter won't ignore it. If you post in a thread he's touched, I'll never see
it.

Already did! The Pre-Oshkosh Pool Party is July 21st. We then all
fly into OSH on July 22nd. It'll be one for the books, I tell ya, and
hopefully we won't have to hold around Rush Lake for two hours
again...

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

With you on this one Jay!

Dave


On 12 Feb 2007 18:26:21 -0800, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

I hope groups like GNAA and other troll organizations never catch wind
of this place. Trolling you people is like shooting fish in a barrel.
Mxsmaniac isn't even explicitly trolling, for christ sake. He's just
trying to discuss.

Bull****.

You know, you guys really need to lighten up. Remember when Skylune
was flying off in every direction, hot and heavy? People were beside
themselves trying to shut him down, and keep him quiet.

I took another tack, and engaged with him. We talked politics, he
opened up and started talking about his days when he took flight
lessons. He turned out to be an okay guy, just ****ed off at some
doofus who kept over-flying his house. He's now a regular here, and
often contributes valuable input to this group.

MX isn't a bad sort, and he *is* trying to discuss aviation. He's
coming 'round to see that -- when posting on a pilot's group -- he has
to explicitly state that he's talking about sim experience. And he
has iniated some very interesting threads -- which is more than I can
say about a lot of the folks who are trash-talking him.

Diplomacy is the art of the possible. I suggest we all try it.

"Casey Wilson" wrote in
news:s5xzh.614$hp4.248@trnddc02:

I realized today that I have been recently scanning down through the
posts on R.A.P. not to learn something new, but instead to find out what
kind of spew the troll is serving up. I feel I owe the rest of my real
flying colleagues an apology. For that reason and that reason alone, I
am going to retire from the newsgroup. My biggest regret is that
Msxmanic will undoubtedly, in his maniacal way, gloat over having won.

Quite frankly, I think many of us who have been infuriated by Manix's
tactics have gone through this. As members-in-good-standing of this
community, I think we take more ownership than is due of the newsgroup. The
harsh reality is that pilot or not, he has as much right to express his
opinion about piloting on this newsgroup as we do - it's a public forum.
There's nothing we can do to stop him. It's akin to any or all of us
gathering up in peaceful protest outside his apartment in Paris with signs
saying that he doesn't know the first thing about tourism in Paris. It's
injurious and obnoxious for sure. But unfortunately, there's no real
recourse.

I suspect that after a short break you'll miss us and be back. Hopefully,
when you come back, you'll learn to deal with his antics. Personally, I've
gone through several iterations of it. At this point, I don't even have him
killfiled anymore.

I think the trick is not to go back and forth with him once he starts
using his "pick-a-point" tactic. Most of the discussions with him seem to
start off as typical debate, which we saw much of here even before his
arrival. When he starts quoting and disputing less-than-primary points of
an opponent's argument in order to prove the other person wrong or steer
the conversation to his utility, that's when I move on.

I don't think he's going to go away until he tires of the group. That time
will be up to him. But it shouldn't be too difficult to filter out what you
don't like on this group - not necessarily using technology, but just by
adjusting your own reading style...

Personally, I just ignore him like I would any other newsgroup troll.
It's pretty easily done. I've been around here for about 10 yrs. and
never considered leaving because of a troll. If they are ignored, they
go away quite quickly.

The problem is not with the troll. Judging from the stats, the r.a.
groups really like responding to his posts. What they get out of it is
beyond me, but the numbers don't lie. As long as he gets his feedback
fix (doesn't matter if it's positive or negative), he'll be with us for
the forseeable future. Nothing wrong with that either, if that's what
the group wants. It doesn't really affect me one way or the other
since I skip his posts and usually most of the ones that respond to
him.

BTW- for you folks that post complaints about him, you might as well
be laying out a welcome mat.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)


--
JGalban
Posted at www.flight.org

On Feb 12, 4:53 pm, JGalban wrote:

The problem is not with the troll. Judging from the stats, the r.a.
groups really like responding to his posts. What they get out of it is
beyond me, but the numbers don't lie. As long as he gets his feedback
fix (doesn't matter if it's positive or negative), he'll be with us for
the forseeable future.

John.

Agree 100 percent with the above. I have been saying this since
October.... and the Mx fans then call the trump card "freedom of
speech", they will reply to whom ever and whenever, which obviously is
disrespectful to those that want this troll to wither away.

I have been trying to emphasize to trim back the headers to the sim
groups or reply via email. It's really that simple.

The problem is that when somebody starts a thread, he then puts his
two cents in and things spiral down, and then you can't follow the
thread anymore.

Until the minority STOP replying to him whether it be an initial post
to the groups or a response, TROLLS will never go away.

Allen