Is it colder at the approach end of the runway?

Chris W wrote:
My dad drives along the south side of OKC to work every day and his OAT
in his car always goes a few degrees colder around the where the
extended centerline for the runways would intersect the road. Then it
goes right back up after he is through that area. He thinks this is
because the airplanes are descending from very cold air and bringing
down some of it with them. He has noted that this isn't always the case
but it often is. You would think most of the traffic would be landing
from the north since our winds are mostly from the south, but it seems
like I see a lot of traffic coming in from the south, maybe because it
is easier for the traffic from DFW to just come strait in.

Anyway, any one here think it is really the case that the planes are
causing the temperature to be lower on the approach end of the runway?
I guess if he monitored the ATIS frequency to find out which runway was
active when he drives by every day, he would have a better idea.

I doubt it.

If airplanes were having an effect on air temperature, I would expect
it would be warmer from all the engine heat, just as freeways are
warmer then the adjacent area.

Most likely it is due to the local arrangement of "stuff" such as
asphalt, concrete, trees, grass, buildings, etc.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Apr 2, 8:25 am, wrote:
Chris W wrote:
My dad drives along the south side of OKC to work every day and his OAT
in his car always goes a few degrees colder around the where the
extended centerline for the runways would intersect the road. Then it
goes right back up after he is through that area. He thinks this is
because the airplanes are descending from very cold air and bringing
down some of it with them. He has noted that this isn't always the case
but it often is. You would think most of the traffic would be landing
from the north since our winds are mostly from the south, but it seems
like I see a lot of traffic coming in from the south, maybe because it
is easier for the traffic from DFW to just come strait in.
Anyway, any one here think it is really the case that the planes are
causing the temperature to be lower on the approach end of the runway?
I guess if he monitored the ATIS frequency to find out which runway was
active when he drives by every day, he would have a better idea.

I doubt it.

If airplanes were having an effect on air temperature, I would expect
it would be warmer from all the engine heat, just as freeways are
warmer then the adjacent area.

Most likely it is due to the local arrangement of "stuff" such as
asphalt, concrete, trees, grass, buildings, etc.

I live near Sacramento where we have long periods of 100+ degree
temps. The gov't has been doing research here on the affect of asphalt
and roofs (not sure why) on temps. They fly a plane overhead in the
afternoon with sensitive heat detecting equipment. They seem to
believe the city is much hotter simply because of the pavement and the
roofs.

-Robert

On Apr 2, 12:09 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
I live near Sacramento where we have long periods of 100+ degree
temps. The gov't has been doing research here on the affect of asphalt
and roofs (not sure why) on temps. They fly a plane overhead in the
afternoon with sensitive heat detecting equipment. They seem to
believe the city is much hotter simply because of the pavement and the
roofs.

It seems logical.

In New York City, it's always 6-8 degrees warmer at night than the
suburbs, supposedly because of the heat held by the buildings.

Cheers,
Kev

"Kev" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Apr 2, 12:09 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
I live near Sacramento where we have long periods of 100+ degree
temps. The gov't has been doing research here on the affect of asphalt
and roofs (not sure why) on temps. They fly a plane overhead in the
afternoon with sensitive heat detecting equipment. They seem to
believe the city is much hotter simply because of the pavement and the
roofs.

It seems logical.

In New York City, it's always 6-8 degrees warmer at night than the
suburbs, supposedly because of the heat held by the buildings.


Yeah, that almost sounds like a pork barrel project to me. I would think
there was tons of information on that subject already stuffing their file
cabnets.

Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Apr 2, 8:25 am, wrote:
Chris W wrote:
My dad drives along the south side of OKC to work every day and his OAT
in his car always goes a few degrees colder around the where the
extended centerline for the runways would intersect the road. Then it
goes right back up after he is through that area. He thinks this is
because the airplanes are descending from very cold air and bringing
down some of it with them. He has noted that this isn't always the case
but it often is. You would think most of the traffic would be landing
from the north since our winds are mostly from the south, but it seems
like I see a lot of traffic coming in from the south, maybe because it
is easier for the traffic from DFW to just come strait in.
Anyway, any one here think it is really the case that the planes are
causing the temperature to be lower on the approach end of the runway?
I guess if he monitored the ATIS frequency to find out which runway was
active when he drives by every day, he would have a better idea.

I doubt it.

If airplanes were having an effect on air temperature, I would expect
it would be warmer from all the engine heat, just as freeways are
warmer then the adjacent area.

Most likely it is due to the local arrangement of "stuff" such as
asphalt, concrete, trees, grass, buildings, etc.

I live near Sacramento where we have long periods of 100+ degree
temps. The gov't has been doing research here on the affect of asphalt
and roofs (not sure why) on temps. They fly a plane overhead in the
afternoon with sensitive heat detecting equipment. They seem to
believe the city is much hotter simply because of the pavement and the
roofs.

They are doing research on "global warming".

One of the objections to global warming data is that much of it is
from cities and the contention by many is that cities are hotter mostly
because they are asphalt and concrete, not because the Earth is warming.

The same objection applies to temperature data from airports.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Robert M. Gary wrote:


I live near Sacramento where we have long periods of 100+ degree
temps. The gov't has been doing research here on the affect of asphalt
and roofs (not sure why) on temps. They fly a plane overhead in the
afternoon with sensitive heat detecting equipment. They seem to
believe the city is much hotter simply because of the pavement and the
roofs.

-Robert

They
re spending money to figure that out. I thought that was common knowledge.

re spending money to figure that out. I thought that was common knowledge.

Well, sometimes things that are common knowledge are incorrect.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
re spending money to figure that out. I thought that was common
knowledge.

Well, sometimes things that are common knowledge are incorrect.

Jose

Jose, you sound like your buddy MX. When I returned from luch today I walked
from a concrete parking lot over about 10 feet of grass to enter the
building. I did not need airborne equipment to tell me it was warmer over
the concrete than it was over the grass.

Robert M. Gary wrote:

I live near Sacramento where we have long periods of 100+ degree
temps. The gov't has been doing research here on the affect of asphalt
and roofs (not sure why) on temps. They fly a plane overhead in the
afternoon with sensitive heat detecting equipment. They seem to
believe the city is much hotter simply because of the pavement and the
roofs.


Don't know why they'd be studying it in Sacramento. Here in Phoenix it has
long been known as the "Heat Island". Basically, asphalt, roofs and concrete
absorb much more heat than dirt or grass. The result is that this excess
heat is liberated slowly after the sun goes down and raises the overnight low
temperature in populated areas.

If you live in a rapidly expanding desert town long enough, it's easy to
see. When I moved here, there were about 1.5 million people in the metro
area. During the hottest part of the summer, overnight low temperatures
stayed in the mid to upper 80s. Nowadays, we have about 4 million people and
the overnight lows stay in the low to mid 90s at the peak of summer. Daytime
temperatures haven't shown any corresponding increase.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...ation/200704/1

"Chris W" wrote in message
...
My dad drives along the south side of OKC to work every day and his OAT in
his car always goes a few degrees colder around the where the extended
centerline for the runways would intersect the road. Then it goes right
back up after he is through that area. He thinks this is because the
airplanes are descending from very cold air and bringing down some of it
with them. He has noted that this isn't always the case but it often is.
You would think most of the traffic would be landing from the north since
our winds are mostly from the south, but it seems like I see a lot of
traffic coming in from the south, maybe because it is easier for the
traffic from DFW to just come strait in.


If I were to guess (and it's just a guess) I would suspect that the long
open space along the runway allows the wind to blow a little faster (less
drag from buildings and stuff) and pulls down a little more cool air from
higher altitudes.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
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