IFR Flight Twice as Deadly as VFR?

Frank Ch. Eigler writes:

Sorry, it sounds a little like you're trolling.

In other words, you disagree. Why not just say so instead of pretending that
there is something objectively wrong with someone else's expression of
opinion?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Sorry, it sounds a little like you're trolling.

In other words, you disagree. Why not just say so instead of pretending that
there is something objectively wrong with someone else's expression of
opinion?

Actually, you're both wrong. I am neither trolling, nor expressing my
opinion. Rather, I am seeking a risk assessment from experienced IFR
pilots who regularly fly IFR in light piston aircraft.

If I am ever to proceed to the IR, it's must be with the full consent
of my co-pilot. If she and I determine that the risk of GA instrument
flight is simply too high to bear -- or, worse, if we disagree on that
risk, and she simply won't fly instruments with me -- there is no need
to proceed to that next rating.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On 14 Apr 2007 05:56:51 -0700, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:


Rather, I am seeking a risk assessment from experienced IFR
pilots who regularly fly IFR in light piston aircraft.

The basic flaw with this is you will only hear from those pilots that
are still alive. The pilots who can give you a negative view of the
risk are not available to reply to your thread. I think it is
appalling that you think it is ok to keep you wife and children in the
dark about the risks of flying. LSA aircraft carry a placard to warn
passengers that the plane is not certified because the FAA thinks they
have a right to know. Does your family deserve any less?

The basic flaw with this is you will only hear from those pilots that
are still alive. The pilots who can give you a negative view of the
risk are not available to reply to your thread.

Great (if depressing) point.

I think it is
appalling that you think it is ok to keep you wife and children in the
dark about the risks of flying. LSA aircraft carry a placard to warn
passengers that the plane is not certified because the FAA thinks they
have a right to know. Does your family deserve any less?

On the contrary, my wife is an experienced pilot who is all-too aware
of the risks of flying. Despite this, we routinely launch to all
points on the map, because we have accepted the risks inherent with
VFR flight. (In fact, we're launching for Florida tomorrow.)

My children are another thing entirely, and we have debated this since
birth. Subjecting them to the increased risk of GA has always been
problematic, but we've always decided on the side of "living" versus
"waiting to die", because GA has made it possible to give our kids so
much more than would otherwise have been possible.

Right now I'm trying to dispassionately assess the risks of IFR
flight, which is a whole 'nother kettle of fish. Collins' article
was quite a wake-up call for me, in that regard.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
Sorry, it sounds a little like you're trolling.
In other words, you disagree. Why not just say so instead of pretending that
there is something objectively wrong with someone else's expression of
opinion?

Actually, you're both wrong. I am neither trolling, nor expressing my
opinion. Rather, I am seeking a risk assessment from experienced IFR
pilots who regularly fly IFR in light piston aircraft.

If I am ever to proceed to the IR, it's must be with the full consent
of my co-pilot. If she and I determine that the risk of GA instrument
flight is simply too high to bear -- or, worse, if we disagree on that
risk, and she simply won't fly instruments with me -- there is no need
to proceed to that next rating.

I think it is logical that flying IFR will increase your overall risk of
flying if for no other reason being that you may fly more. You will now
make flights that would have left you grounded under VFR.

Matt

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
Sorry, it sounds a little like you're trolling.

In other words, you disagree. Why not just say so instead of pretending
that
there is something objectively wrong with someone else's expression of
opinion?

Actually, you're both wrong. I am neither trolling, nor expressing my
opinion. Rather, I am seeking a risk assessment from experienced IFR
pilots who regularly fly IFR in light piston aircraft.

If I am ever to proceed to the IR, it's must be with the full consent
of my co-pilot. If she and I determine that the risk of GA instrument
flight is simply too high to bear -- or, worse, if we disagree on that
risk, and she simply won't fly instruments with me -- there is no need
to proceed to that next rating.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


Just having the rating won't force you into higher risk situations. With
each flight, you still choose what level of risk you are willing to take.
Haven't flown IFR for a while? Then don't do a flight that will require hard
IFR enroute followed by an approach to mins.

There is still a lot of value in getting up or down through a deck or doing
an approach to a 1000 foot ceiling. Very managable risks.

For me, an IFR rating allows me to make more trips on my schedule. Not all.
But more.

--
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

Ok, statistics say that you are twice as likely to die if you are IFR vs
VFR (apparently - at least that's what kicked off this thread). Also, there
was a recent thread comparing the statistics for GA vs scheduled airlines...

Some more to consider - You are 29 times more likely to die if you are
behind the wheel of an Acura RSX vs a Chevy Astro minivan. Jay - you drive a
Mustang, right? Did you know you are 21 times as likely to die compared to
the Astro? Here's another good one - The death rate for the Mercury Grand
Marquis is 66% higher than the Ford Crown Victoria - and they are the same
car!!!
(Based on driver deaths per number of registerd vehicles)

Correlation does not imply causality.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

On 14 Apr 2007 07:07:07 -0400, (Frank Ch. Eigler)
wrote in :

2. Assuming the statistics are true, how do you minimize your risk?

The same way one minimizes non-IFR risks: good planning, equipment,
maintenance, judgement, performance.

And recent experience.

"Jay Honeck" wrote:

Therefore, for those of you who regularly fly IFR in light piston
singles and twins, a few questions:

1. Do you agree with Collins' statements?

In general, yes, if you are talking about flying in *IMC*.

2. Assuming the statistics are true, how do you minimize your risk?

Training to stay proficient, not making more than two approaches to minimums,
avoiding circling approaches at night or when the weather is at minimums,
avoiding IMC that has imbedded CBs, being extremely conservative about
possible icing conditions.

3.Since IFR flight is statistically among the most dangerous things
you can do in a light GA aircraft, and flying a GA aircraft is already
approximately as dangerous as riding a motorcycle, do you ever have
any second thoughts about what you're doing? How do you feel about
strapping your family into a light aircraft and launching into the
clag?

I don't do it at night or if the weather is really down over large areas
around my departure, route or destination.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Therefore, for those of you who regularly fly IFR in light piston
singles and twins, a few questions:

1. Do you agree with Collins' statements?

Not really... ait is all in the interpretation of the data.

2. Assuming the statistics are true, how do you minimize your risk?

I stay current, I use good judgement and keep my
airplane and equipment in as good shape as I can.
I also do not take risks.

3.Since IFR flight is statistically among the most dangerous things
you can do in a light GA aircraft, and flying a GA aircraft is already
approximately as dangerous as riding a motorcycle, do you ever have
any second thoughts about what you're doing? How do you feel about
strapping your family into a light aircraft and launching into the
clag?

Jay please get a grip. IFR flying demands a higher level of
all skills and attributes that a pilot can have. It is very
_unforgiving_ of someone having those negative aspects (you know
gota-get-there-itis, "I don't need to follow the rules",
yadda yadda) It is unforgiving of someone who does poor flight
planning.

You must constantly (and honestly) assess you capabilities and
skill level not only month by month but even day to day and
make decisions accordingly. If you are uncapable of doing this
you are taking a risk.

Those are the facts and I'm sticking to them.