Question to Mxmanic

"Kev" wrote ...

Of course, LIGHT does not mean "light aircraft". Some 152s are
vortex HEAVY in the case of big instructors and students ;-)

I see your point ;-)

However, I've never seen a condensation trail behind a C152 wingtip. Not
that it necessarily means anything.

But you made me think about air viscosity, i.e. friction that dissipates
turbulence. One might argue that a C152 flies in relatively "thicker" air
than a B757 and thus a vortex or downwash might not propagate away from the
flightpath as easily. How far from a bumblebee can its downwash be felt?

Just rambling ... ;-)

Rip,

As everyone else but
Anthony knows, steep turns do indeed TEND to be descending turns, unless
specific action is taken to remain at a constant altitude.


Can't follow you there. That's as useful a statement as "airplanes tend to
be stationary objects..."

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Thomas Borchert writes:

Can't follow you there. That's as useful a statement as "airplanes tend to
be stationary objects..."

In a turn, a portion of the lift produced by the wings must be used to
accelerate the aircraft laterally, and this portion of the lift is no longer
available to maintain the aircraft's altitude. Thus, without any adjustment
of pitch or power to compensate, any turn will result in a loss of altitude.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

On Apr 17, 11:06 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
In a turn, a portion of the lift produced by the wings must be used to
accelerate the aircraft laterally, and this portion of the lift is no longer
available to maintain the aircraft's altitude. Thus, without any adjustment
of pitch or power to compensate, any turn will result in a loss of altitude.

All pilots know this and assume that a "turn" includes compensation,
unless they specifically say "descending" or "climbing".

So when you keep saying "a turn will always descend", you just confuse
your readers... especially the ones who don't follow threads closely.
You're in a pilot newsgroup, which means the prevailing terminology is
that of pilots, not necessarily engineers, civilians, or whomever.

Kev

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
Thomas Borchert writes:

Can't follow you there. That's as useful a statement as "airplanes tend to
be stationary objects..."

In a turn, a portion of the lift produced by the wings must be used to
accelerate the aircraft laterally, and this portion of the lift is no longer
available to maintain the aircraft's altitude. Thus, without any adjustment
of pitch or power to compensate, any turn will result in a loss of altitude.

Yet another true but worthless statement.

One of the first things real pilots are taught in real training in
real airplanes is how to maintain a constant altitude in a turn.

Ergo any real turns by real airplanes will be constant altitude
unless the PILOT has a reason to do otherwise.

Since most 360 turns are done as practice to establish and maintain
the skill, most 360 turns will be at a constant altitude +/- 100 feet.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Apr 18, 4:45 am, wrote:
In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:

Thomas Borchert writes:
Can't follow you there. That's as useful a statement as "airplanes tend to
be stationary objects..."
In a turn, a portion of the lift produced by the wings must be used to
accelerate the aircraft laterally, and this portion of the lift is no longer
available to maintain the aircraft's altitude. Thus, without any adjustment
of pitch or power to compensate, any turn will result in a loss of altitude.

Yet another true but worthless statement.

One of the first things real pilots are taught in real training in
real airplanes is how to maintain a constant altitude in a turn.

Ergo any real turns by real airplanes will be constant altitude
unless the PILOT has a reason to do otherwise.

Since most 360 turns are done as practice to establish and maintain
the skill, most 360 turns will be at a constant altitude +/- 100 feet.


Consider the plight of the average ag pilot if he can't maintain
altitude in a steep turn if mad mixedups crazy claim is correct.....
and the brievity of his working life

Mxsmanic wrote:
JB writes:


You are such an idiot! Probably every GA pilot-in-training with a
C152/172 or something similar has experienced hitting their own wake
when performing their first steep turn with an instructor.


Steep turns tend to be descending turns.

Anthony, this is exactly why you antagonize so many
people in the aviation forums.

*Every* pilot (at least in the US) learns steep turns
in the context of the FAA's practical test standard.
That's a steep turn while holding your altitude +/- 100
feet. In reality, we train to hold the altitude constant
during the turn, so that involves modulated back pressure
on the stick and probably more throttle.

http://www.faa.gov/education_researc...S-8081-14A.pdf

PDF page 48.

Your original response would possibly meaningful on
a simulator forum. On a flying forum, you should
understand your lack of background and context before
posting presumptuous statements.

Jim Stewart writes:

*Every* pilot (at least in the US) learns steep turns
in the context of the FAA's practical test standard.
That's a steep turn while holding your altitude +/- 100
feet.

If you meet your wake, you're descending.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:

Jim Stewart writes:


*Every* pilot (at least in the US) learns steep turns
in the context of the FAA's practical test standard.
That's a steep turn while holding your altitude +/- 100
feet.


If you meet your wake, you're descending.


My post had nothing to do with descending.
It had to do with why you're treated like
a fool on aviation forums. You should address
that issue rather than getting fixated on
steep turns and descending....

On Apr 16, 1:39 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Jim Stewart writes:
*Every* pilot (at least in the US) learns steep turns
in the context of the FAA's practical test standard.
That's a steep turn while holding your altitude +/- 100
feet.

If you meet your wake, you're descending.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

I have sent the following question to an aerospace engineer at the
Rand corporation for his response...I'll keep you posted:
There is a thread on one of the aviation usenet groups that got me to
thinking...
In training, it it routinely common for a pilot to practice steeps
turns, and when you reach the roll out of a 360 degree turn with a
bank angle of 45-60 degrees, you will feel a hard bump, which most
instructors say is due to going through your own wake. One of the
commentators is arguing that this can't happen due to the fact that
wake turbulence descends. But it is a clearly easily demonstrated
effect. Is it our own wake? Or are we creating a vertical vortex
with the maneuver of a steep turn? (rather than the wake of wingtip
vortices). Is the data on wake turbulence behavior applicable to a
shrply turning aircraft?