PSA: Don't be rude on the radio

On 2007-05-10 09:29:04 -0700, "Allen" said:


Landing. Aircraft while on final approach to land or while landing,
have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on
the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to
force and aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed...

Which does nothing to define what "final approach" is. If you are aligned
with the runway and intending to land does final begin 5 miles from the
threshold? 10 miles? 15 miles? 50 miles?

Well, in the case linked, in each incident the pilot of the Cessna 150
turned inside and cut in front of aircraft that were lower than him and
on final approach. At least one aircraft appears to have been in the
pattern that was lower than him but not on final was considered by the
FAA to be on "final approach" and lower. This behavior by the Cessna
pilot occurred repeatedly and on more than one flight.

So many planes can be on "final approach" but the lower aircraft has
right of way. However, you cannot deliberately try to descend lower
than another plane simply to position yourself in front of him. In the
case of the Cessna 150 pilot, he nearly hit a plane that had just
landed as well as one that was on the runway ready to take off. While
landing aircraft normally have right of way over departing aircraft,
the FAA ruled that the Cessna pilot was operating dangerously and
recklessly and that he cannot claim to have right of way if he is
flying recklessly.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

"Allen" wrote in message
...

Which does nothing to define what "final approach" is. If you are aligned
with the runway and intending to land does final begin 5 miles from the
threshold? 10 miles? 15 miles? 50 miles?


All of those. You're on final when you're aligned with the landing area.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
link.net...

"Allen" wrote in message
...

Which does nothing to define what "final approach" is. If you are
aligned
with the runway and intending to land does final begin 5 miles from the
threshold? 10 miles? 15 miles? 50 miles?


All of those. You're on final when you're aligned with the landing area.


I don't agree with you. If you are aligned with the landing area but still
20 miles out you are enroute, not on final.

On Sun, 13 May 2007 02:08:23 GMT, "Allen"
wrote in :


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Allen" wrote in message
...

Which does nothing to define what "final approach" is. If you are
aligned
with the runway and intending to land does final begin 5 miles from the
threshold? 10 miles? 15 miles? 50 miles?


All of those. You're on final when you're aligned with the landing area.


I don't agree with you. If you are aligned with the landing area but still
20 miles out you are enroute, not on final.


It would seem that is true if there is a published FAF for that
runway.

On Sun, 13 May 2007 02:08:23 GMT, "Allen"
wrote:


I don't agree with you. If you are aligned with the landing area but still
20 miles out you are enroute, not on final.


Big jets are on long final at my local international airport all the
time.

We hear ATC stating stuff like "BigJet 233, 15 mile final, rwy 24"
usually in IFR. I've also heard jets being told "BigJet 233, report 3
mile left base rwy 24", on a clear day.

On snowy days, I've heard final approach described as 30 mile final,
then 20, then 10, which is relayed to the ground maintenance folks
doing snow removal.

"Allen" wrote in message
t...

I don't agree with you. If you are aligned with the landing area but
still
20 miles out you are enroute, not on final.


Your disagreement alters nothing.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Allen" wrote in message
...
Which does nothing to define what "final approach" is. If you are aligned
with the runway and intending to land does final begin 5 miles from the
threshold? 10 miles? 15 miles? 50 miles?


All of those. You're on final when you're aligned with the landing area.

So if airport A has a runway that is perfectly aligned to airport B
which is 100 miles distant and I fly directly from airport B to airport
A (into the wind so I'm landing on the appropriate runway without
turning), that means I'm on final the entire trip? Cool!


Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

So if airport A has a runway that is perfectly aligned to airport B which
is 100 miles distant and I fly directly from airport B to airport A (into
the wind so I'm landing on the appropriate runway without turning), that
means I'm on final the entire trip?

Yes.

wrote in
ups.com:

Landing. Aircraft while on final approach to land or while
landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or
operating on the surface, except that they shall not take
advantage of this rule to force and aircraft off the runway
surface which has already landed...

.... and I believe that the AIM defines "Final Approach" as:
A flight path in the direction of landing along the extended
runway centerline from the base leg to the runway.

--

On May 10, 1:46 pm, John Godwin wrote:
wrote roups.com:

Landing. Aircraft while on final approach to land or while
landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or
operating on the surface, except that they shall not take
advantage of this rule to force and aircraft off the runway
surface which has already landed...

... and I believe that the AIM defines "Final Approach" as:
A flight path in the direction of landing along the extended
runway centerline from the base leg to the runway.

--

"FINAL APPROACH -- ICAO. That part of an instrument approach
procedure which commences at the specified final approach fix or
point, or where such fix or point is not specified:
a. At the end of the last procedure turn, base turn or inbound
turn or a racetrack procedure, if specified
b. At the point of interception of the last track specified in the
approach procedure; and ends at a point in the vicinity of an
aerodrome from which:
1. A landing can be made; or
2. A missed approach procedure is initiated.

FINAL APPROACH -- IFR. The flight path of an aircraft which is
inbound to an airport on a final instrument approach course, beginning
at the final approach fix or point and extending to the airport or the
point where a circle-to-land maneuver or missed approach is executed."

From that definition, "final approach" would be from the marker
inbound on an ILS, or wherever the arriving traffic happens to get
lined up with the final approach course. I'm sure you're aware that
traffic arriving IFR is often vectored onto 5-10 mile final, so that
"base leg" may have been flown, just 10 miles from where you're used
to turning base-final. Faster, high performance aircraft often take
time to slow down and transition from the terminal phase to approach
and landing.