A380 captain's pay

On May 26, 5:35 am, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
In a previous article, "Robert M. Gary" said:

The cost is actually a very small factor in overseas hiring in the
software industry. Our two main motivating factors are 1) we want a
large pool to hire from, in the U.S. right now its very much an
employees market, its hard for employeers to find "good" (not the high
school kids that were hired during the internet bubble, real engineers
with real engineering degrees) programmers to pick from and 2) Since a

Bull****. At least 50 percent of the programmers I know are not working
as programmers because their employers fired them and replaced them with
off-shore workers. There are plenty of very good programmers here in the
US who can't get work because employers don't want to pay a living wage.

I told my kids not to bother getting engineering degrees because in a few
years there won't be a single job left in the US.

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
"Harry very carefully read the manual - four times - because Snape would
cut off his breathing privs if he asked him a question that the manual
could answer..." -- Harry Potter and the Book Of The BOFH

Hi Paul,

Yes, I told my nephew not to become a Mechanical Engineer for the same
reason. He is going into business and Lanscape Architecture instead.
They can't offshore that.

One of the reasons that engineers are disappearing from the
marketplace is because a lot of them are getting sick of the lack of
job stability, declining pay, and generally poor workplace
environments that have come into being in recent years and have left
the profession for other vocations. I know of several that did that
here in Idaho.

Dean

writes:

Yes, I told my nephew not to become a Mechanical Engineer for the same
reason. He is going into business and Lanscape Architecture instead.
They can't offshore that.

Why not?

One of the reasons that engineers are disappearing from the
marketplace is because a lot of them are getting sick of the lack of
job stability, declining pay, and generally poor workplace
environments that have come into being in recent years and have left
the profession for other vocations. I know of several that did that
here in Idaho.

What fields did they go into?

wrote:

One of the reasons that engineers are disappearing from the
marketplace is because a lot of them are getting sick of the lack of
job stability, declining pay, and generally poor workplace
environments that have come into being in recent years and have left
the profession for other vocations. I know of several that did that
here in Idaho.

In my business (automatic temperature control systems), technicians make more
than the mechanical engineers who design the HVAC systems we control.

For a few engineers, the ceiling is higher, especially if they become
partners in large firms. Still, for the most part, being a controls
technician-which does not require a 4-year degree-is a better job.

--
Dan

"The future has actually been here for a while, it's just not readily
available to everyone."
- some guy at MIT

In article ,
"Dan Luke" wrote:

In my business (automatic temperature control systems), technicians make more
than the mechanical engineers who design the HVAC systems we control.

ME's might make more if management of companies with large buildings were
willing to pay the price for an HVAC system that could actually correctly keep
the temperature comfortable, especially during seasonal changes. Instead
they just shrug and go back to their nice offices.

(:-{

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

"Bob Noel" wrote:

In my business (automatic temperature control systems), technicians make
more
than the mechanical engineers who design the HVAC systems we control.

ME's might make more if management of companies with large buildings were
willing to pay the price for an HVAC system that could actually correctly
keep
the temperature comfortable, especially during seasonal changes. Instead
they just shrug and go back to their nice offices.

When a project is in the design phase and costs are being considered, owners
are all for cutting "frills" in the HVAC system design.

After the building is occupied and people are complaining about comfort
problems, the poor engineer and the control guy get dragged into a
come-to-Jesus meeting and asked why their systems don't work.

....and don't even get me started about owners skimping on maintenance.

--
Dan

"Almost all the matter that came out of the Big Bang was two specific sorts;
hydrogen, and stupidity."

-Robert Carnegie in talk.origins

wrote in message oups.com...
On May 26, 5:35 am, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
In a previous article, "Robert M. Gary" said:

The cost is actually a very small factor in overseas hiring in the
software industry. Our two main motivating factors are 1) we want a
large pool to hire from, in the U.S. right now its very much an
employees market, its hard for employeers to find "good" (not the high
school kids that were hired during the internet bubble, real engineers
with real engineering degrees) programmers to pick from and 2) Since a

Bull****. At least 50 percent of the programmers I know are not working
as programmers because their employers fired them and replaced them with
off-shore workers. There are plenty of very good programmers here in the
US who can't get work because employers don't want to pay a living wage.

I told my kids not to bother getting engineering degrees because in a few
years there won't be a single job left in the US.

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
"Harry very carefully read the manual - four times - because Snape would
cut off his breathing privs if he asked him a question that the manual
could answer..." -- Harry Potter and the Book Of The BOFH

Hi Paul,

Yes, I told my nephew not to become a Mechanical Engineer for the same
reason. He is going into business and Lanscape Architecture instead.
They can't offshore that.

One of the reasons that engineers are disappearing from the
marketplace is because a lot of them are getting sick of the lack of
job stability, declining pay, and generally poor workplace
environments that have come into being in recent years and have left
the profession for other vocations. I know of several that did that
here in Idaho.

Dean


Good engineers will hold good jobs. Sometimes knowledge is considered a commodity, so those that conform go offshore. It
is creativity that makes one valuable. If the creativity manufacturing base is offloaded, there will be no need for
landscape architecture because no-one will be able to buy the garden...

On May 27, 7:45 am, "Blueskies" wrote:
wrote in ooglegroups.com...
On May 26, 5:35 am, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
In a previous article, "Robert M. Gary" said:

The cost is actually a very small factor in overseas hiring in the
software industry. Our two main motivating factors are 1) we want a
large pool to hire from, in the U.S. right now its very much an
employees market, its hard for employeers to find "good" (not the high
school kids that were hired during the internet bubble, real engineers
with real engineering degrees) programmers to pick from and 2) Since a

Bull****. At least 50 percent of the programmers I know are not working
as programmers because their employers fired them and replaced them with
off-shore workers. There are plenty of very good programmers here in the
US who can't get work because employers don't want to pay a living wage.

I told my kids not to bother getting engineering degrees because in a few
years there won't be a single job left in the US.

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
"Harry very carefully read the manual - four times - because Snape would
cut off his breathing privs if he asked him a question that the manual
could answer..." -- Harry Potter and the Book Of The BOFH

Hi Paul,

Yes, I told my nephew not to become a Mechanical Engineer for the same
reason. He is going into business and Lanscape Architecture instead.
They can't offshore that.

One of the reasons that engineers are disappearing from the
marketplace is because a lot of them are getting sick of the lack of
job stability, declining pay, and generally poor workplace
environments that have come into being in recent years and have left
the profession for other vocations. I know of several that did that
here in Idaho.

Dean

Good engineers will hold good jobs. Sometimes knowledge is considered a commodity, so those that conform go offshore. It
is creativity that makes one valuable. If the creativity manufacturing base is offloaded, there will be no need for
landscape architecture because no-one will be able to buy the garden...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm a good engineer, but I could see the writing on the wall at HP so
I took the package and left. I had a new job 1 week after my last day
at HP. It still sucks having to change jobs every 5 years on
average. My vacation balance starts off at 0 every time, and that is
just one of the downsides...

On May 26, 8:25 pm, wrote:
On May 26, 5:35 am, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:





In a previous article, "Robert M. Gary" said:

The cost is actually a very small factor in overseas hiring in the
software industry. Our two main motivating factors are 1) we want a
large pool to hire from, in the U.S. right now its very much an
employees market, its hard for employeers to find "good" (not the high
school kids that were hired during the internet bubble, real engineers
with real engineering degrees) programmers to pick from and 2) Since a

Bull****. At least 50 percent of the programmers I know are not working
as programmers because their employers fired them and replaced them with
off-shore workers. There are plenty of very good programmers here in the
US who can't get work because employers don't want to pay a living wage.

I told my kids not to bother getting engineering degrees because in a few
years there won't be a single job left in the US.

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
"Harry very carefully read the manual - four times - because Snape would
cut off his breathing privs if he asked him a question that the manual
could answer..." -- Harry Potter and the Book Of The BOFH

Hi Paul,

Yes, I told my nephew not to become a Mechanical Engineer for the same
reason. He is going into business and Lanscape Architecture instead.
They can't offshore that.

One of the reasons that engineers are disappearing from the
marketplace is because a lot of them are getting sick of the lack of
job stability, declining pay, and generally poor workplace
environments that have come into being in recent years and have left
the profession for other vocations. I know of several that did that
here in Idaho.

Maybe they are really, really old. I got out of school in the 90's
just ahead of the internet boom. I don't ever remember there being job
stability(if you define it as being able to work for the same company
for 40 years), and hours have always been long (actually they were a
lot longer before the industrialization of software). The bottom line
is that there were *WAY* too many people calling themselves
programmers during the internet bubble. Now you have to know what you
are doing.

-robert

Robert M. Gary writes:

Maybe they are really, really old. I got out of school in the 90's
just ahead of the internet boom. I don't ever remember there being job
stability(if you define it as being able to work for the same company
for 40 years), and hours have always been long (actually they were a
lot longer before the industrialization of software). The bottom line
is that there were *WAY* too many people calling themselves
programmers during the internet bubble. Now you have to know what you
are doing.

There hasn't been any job stability since the first oil crisis.

Even if you know what you are doing, someone in India knows what he is doing
even better than you do, and he'll work for 10% of your salary.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Robert M. Gary writes:

Maybe they are really, really old. I got out of school in the 90's
just ahead of the internet boom. I don't ever remember there being
job stability(if you define it as being able to work for the same
company for 40 years), and hours have always been long (actually they
were a lot longer before the industrialization of software). The
bottom line is that there were *WAY* too many people calling
themselves programmers during the internet bubble. Now you have to
know what you are doing.

There hasn't been any job stability since the first oil crisis.
Waht do you care, you don';t have a job.

Bertie