A380 captain's pay

On May 27, 7:45 am, "Blueskies" wrote:
wrote in ooglegroups.com...
On May 26, 5:35 am, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
In a previous article, "Robert M. Gary" said:

The cost is actually a very small factor in overseas hiring in the
software industry. Our two main motivating factors are 1) we want a
large pool to hire from, in the U.S. right now its very much an
employees market, its hard for employeers to find "good" (not the high
school kids that were hired during the internet bubble, real engineers
with real engineering degrees) programmers to pick from and 2) Since a

Bull****. At least 50 percent of the programmers I know are not working
as programmers because their employers fired them and replaced them with
off-shore workers. There are plenty of very good programmers here in the
US who can't get work because employers don't want to pay a living wage.

I told my kids not to bother getting engineering degrees because in a few
years there won't be a single job left in the US.

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
"Harry very carefully read the manual - four times - because Snape would
cut off his breathing privs if he asked him a question that the manual
could answer..." -- Harry Potter and the Book Of The BOFH

Hi Paul,

Yes, I told my nephew not to become a Mechanical Engineer for the same
reason. He is going into business and Lanscape Architecture instead.
They can't offshore that.

One of the reasons that engineers are disappearing from the
marketplace is because a lot of them are getting sick of the lack of
job stability, declining pay, and generally poor workplace
environments that have come into being in recent years and have left
the profession for other vocations. I know of several that did that
here in Idaho.

Dean

Good engineers will hold good jobs. Sometimes knowledge is considered a commodity, so those that conform go offshore. It
is creativity that makes one valuable. If the creativity manufacturing base is offloaded, there will be no need for
landscape architecture because no-one will be able to buy the garden...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm a good engineer, but I could see the writing on the wall at HP so
I took the package and left. I had a new job 1 week after my last day
at HP. It still sucks having to change jobs every 5 years on
average. My vacation balance starts off at 0 every time, and that is
just one of the downsides...

On May 26, 8:25 pm, wrote:
On May 26, 5:35 am, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:





In a previous article, "Robert M. Gary" said:

The cost is actually a very small factor in overseas hiring in the
software industry. Our two main motivating factors are 1) we want a
large pool to hire from, in the U.S. right now its very much an
employees market, its hard for employeers to find "good" (not the high
school kids that were hired during the internet bubble, real engineers
with real engineering degrees) programmers to pick from and 2) Since a

Bull****. At least 50 percent of the programmers I know are not working
as programmers because their employers fired them and replaced them with
off-shore workers. There are plenty of very good programmers here in the
US who can't get work because employers don't want to pay a living wage.

I told my kids not to bother getting engineering degrees because in a few
years there won't be a single job left in the US.

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
"Harry very carefully read the manual - four times - because Snape would
cut off his breathing privs if he asked him a question that the manual
could answer..." -- Harry Potter and the Book Of The BOFH

Hi Paul,

Yes, I told my nephew not to become a Mechanical Engineer for the same
reason. He is going into business and Lanscape Architecture instead.
They can't offshore that.

One of the reasons that engineers are disappearing from the
marketplace is because a lot of them are getting sick of the lack of
job stability, declining pay, and generally poor workplace
environments that have come into being in recent years and have left
the profession for other vocations. I know of several that did that
here in Idaho.

Maybe they are really, really old. I got out of school in the 90's
just ahead of the internet boom. I don't ever remember there being job
stability(if you define it as being able to work for the same company
for 40 years), and hours have always been long (actually they were a
lot longer before the industrialization of software). The bottom line
is that there were *WAY* too many people calling themselves
programmers during the internet bubble. Now you have to know what you
are doing.

-robert

Robert M. Gary writes:

Maybe they are really, really old. I got out of school in the 90's
just ahead of the internet boom. I don't ever remember there being job
stability(if you define it as being able to work for the same company
for 40 years), and hours have always been long (actually they were a
lot longer before the industrialization of software). The bottom line
is that there were *WAY* too many people calling themselves
programmers during the internet bubble. Now you have to know what you
are doing.

There hasn't been any job stability since the first oil crisis.

Even if you know what you are doing, someone in India knows what he is doing
even better than you do, and he'll work for 10% of your salary.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Robert M. Gary writes:

Maybe they are really, really old. I got out of school in the 90's
just ahead of the internet boom. I don't ever remember there being
job stability(if you define it as being able to work for the same
company for 40 years), and hours have always been long (actually they
were a lot longer before the industrialization of software). The
bottom line is that there were *WAY* too many people calling
themselves programmers during the internet bubble. Now you have to
know what you are doing.

There hasn't been any job stability since the first oil crisis.
Waht do you care, you don';t have a job.

Bertie

On May 30, 11:08 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Robert M. Gary writes:
Maybe they are really, really old. I got out of school in the 90's
just ahead of the internet boom. I don't ever remember there being job
stability(if you define it as being able to work for the same company
for 40 years), and hours have always been long (actually they were a
lot longer before the industrialization of software). The bottom line
is that there were *WAY* too many people calling themselves
programmers during the internet bubble. Now you have to know what you
are doing.

There hasn't been any job stability since the first oil crisis.

Even if you know what you are doing, someone in India knows what he is doing
even better than you do, and he'll work for 10% of your salary.

I have a dozen guys in India right now. Not a one only makes 10% of a
U.S. salary and some are pretty darn close to U.S. salary. Yet, we
just hired 6 people here in the states and I just found out about two
more companies in the area looking for programmers at lunch. So all
your assertions are wrong.

-Robret

On May 26, 4:35 am, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
In a previous article, "Robert M. Gary" said:

The cost is actually a very small factor in overseas hiring in the
software industry. Our two main motivating factors are 1) we want a
large pool to hire from, in the U.S. right now its very much an
employees market, its hard for employeers to find "good" (not the high
school kids that were hired during the internet bubble, real engineers
with real engineering degrees) programmers to pick from and 2) Since a

Bull****. At least 50 percent of the programmers I know are not working
as programmers because their employers fired them and replaced them with
off-shore workers. There are plenty of very good programmers here in the
US who can't get work because employers don't want to pay a living wage.

Personally I have seen salerys do nothing but go up in the U.S. since
early 2000's (yes, they did drop for a bit, but have more than
recovered). My friends and I have been moving around and have found 6
figures still available. However, if the last time you updated your
skills was 1995 you probably won't get much work. Things change fast,
you need to keep up with recurrent training (JEE, .NET, etc). The days
of sitting at your desk and expecting the world to sit around and wait
for you are gone.

I told my kids not to bother getting engineering degrees because in a few
years there won't be a single job left in the US.

Sounds like something from talk radio but certainly very contrary to
what I've seen. In fact the biggest issue is that other types of
engineering have been taking good programmers out of the pool. Sales
engineering is now very, very big and can't be off-shored. There is
travel involved but you usually work from home.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary writes:

Sales engineering is now very, very big and can't be off-shored.

Sales engineering is an oxymoron.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Robert M. Gary writes:

Sales engineering is now very, very big and can't be off-shored.

Sales engineering is an oxymoron.

Not really. I have several friends that have jobs in sales where their
engineering skills are critical.

Of course, I understand if you can't parse that sentence. It does have two
words that you seem to not relate to.

On May 30, 11:09 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Robert M. Gary writes:
Sales engineering is now very, very big and can't be off-shored.

Sales engineering is an oxymoron.

Apparently you aren't familiar with the technology industry so I'll
explain what the term means. Sales guys don't know much about
technology so they bring sales engineers out with them (or ahead of
them). The sales engineer talks tech with the customer and sets up
demo type of stuff. The actual sales guy just talks to the finance guy
and the C-executive (CEO, CTO, COO, etc). Sales engineers make salary
plus a piece of the sales person's commission. Since that job requires
travel in the U.S. its hard to outsource right now (its taking us
about 4 weeks to get business Visas for employees coming into the U.S.
for periods of 1 to 2 weeks of travel). Most of our sales engineers
live all over the country working out of their house and traveling
about 2 weeks per month. Again, its amazing to me how some people are
so confident in their opinion of the U.S. job market as they sit in
their parent's basement.

-Robert